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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA



UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,    

                  PLAINTIFF,

                  V.

MICROSOFT CORPORATION,

                  DEFENDANT.


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C.A. NO. 98-1232
STATE OF NEW YORK, ET AL.,    

                  PLAINTIFFS,

                  V.

MICROSOFT CORPORATION,

                  DEFENDANT.


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C.A. NO. 98-1223
MICROSOFT CORPORATION,    

                  COUNTERCLAIM-PLAINTIFF,

                  V.

DENNIS C. VACCO, ET AL.,

                  COUNTERCLAIM-DEFENDANTS.


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WASHINGTON, D.C.
FEBRUARY 23, 1999
2:09 P.M.
(P.M. SESSION)

VOLUME 59

TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE THOMAS P. JACKSON
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

18

1CONVERSATION, IT WAS AN E-MAIL.

2Q. SO, IN EACH OF THE CASES WHERE YOU REPORTED ON A

3MEETING OR A CONVERSATION, YOU WOULD HAVE SENT AN E-MAIL

4TO YOUR SUPERIORS AT MICROSOFT; CORRECT?

5A. YES, BEYOND, YOU KNOW, "MET WITH APPLE YESTERDAY; IT

6WAS FINE."

7Q. IF IT WAS JUST THAT, YOU WOULD DO IT ORALLY. IF IT

8WAS SOMETHING MORE, YOU WOULD SEND AN E-MAIL?

9A. YES, THATS TRUE. I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE VERY

10CLEAR.

11Q. I APPRECIATE THAT.

12NOW, MR. ENGSTROM, AT SOME POINT YOU DELETED ALL

13OF YOUR E-MAILS RELATING TO ANY CONVERSATIONS OR MEETINGS

14THAT YOU HAD WITH APPLE THAT OCCURRED PRIOR TO THE END OF

15MAY OF 1998; CORRECT?

16A. NO. WHAT I DO IS I DELETE MAIL THAT IS TWO MONTHS

17OLD ON A REGULAR BASIS BECAUSE I WORK ON A HARD DISK ON A

18LAPTOP. THE MACHINE IS FAIRLY OLD, THE REASON FOR THAT

19BEING I TEND TO TEST THE SOFTWARE MY GROUP IS PRODUCING,

20AND I LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT IT RUNS ON WHAT A CUSTOMER'S

21MACHINE IS TYPICALLY TO BE. SO, AS A ROUTINE BASIS, I

22DELETE ALL MAIL, YOU KNOW, TWO MONTHS OLD.

23Q. ITS THE CASE, ISN'T IT, THAT NO E-MAIL AUTHORED BY

24YOU THAT REPORTS ON ANY MEETINGS OR ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH

25APPLE BEFORE THE END OF MAY 1998 WAS PRODUCED TO THE

19

1GOVERNMENT AS PART OF THIS LITIGATION?

2A. I'M NOT SURE OF THAT, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

3Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY E-MAILS REPORTING ON

4CONVERSATIONS OR MEETINGS WITH APPLE THAT WERE PRODUCED

5BEFORE MAY, THE END OF MAY, 1998?

6A. NO, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY.

7Q. AND YOU DON'T REFER TO OR ATTACH ANY IN YOUR WRITTEN

8DIRECT TESTIMONY, DO YOU, SIR?

9A. NO.

10Q. NOW, IN YOUR TESTIMONY YOU STATE THAT OVER TIME YOU

11HAVE ENGAGED IN DISCUSSIONS WITH APPLE AND WITH OTHER

12DEVELOPERS OF MULTIMEDIA SOFTWARE CONCERNING WHAT YOU CALL

13"STANDARDIZATION"; IS THAT RIGHT?

14A. YES.

15Q. AND ONE OF THE COMPANIES THAT YOU'VE TALKED TO OVER

16 TIME ABOUT MULTIMEDIA SOFTWARE IS INTEL; CORRECT, SIR?

17A. YES.

18Q. IN FACT, YOU'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH INTEL ABOUT

19SUN'S JAVA MULTIMEDIA API'S, HAVE YOU NOT?

20A. YES.

21Q. AND SUN'S JAVA MULTIMEDIA API'S ARE A JAVA-BASED FORM

22OF MULTIMEDIA TECHNOLOGY THAT, IN SOME WAYS, ACCOMPLISHES

23SIMILAR THINGS TO MICROSOFTS MULTIMEDIA TECHNOLOGY OR

24APPLE'S MULTIMEDIA TECHNOLOGY; IS THAT GENERALLY TRUE?

25A. ITS GENERALLY TRUE. I'M ACTUALLY NOT SURE HOW THEY