5                     SPEAKING BEFORE
7                      128th MEETING
12                Friday, September 6, 1996
13                10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.
20                   Nancy Hanks Center Room M-09
21           11th and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.  Washington, D.C.
1                     C O N T E N T S
2							PAGE
3	Introduction by National Council on the		3
		Arts Chairman Jane Alexander
4	Speech by Attorney General Janet F. Reno	3
5	Remarks by Attorney General Janet F. Reno	11
6       in response to Council Members questions
7	Questions and Remarks by National         	
		Council on the Arts Members:
8	Speight Jenkins					11, 13, 41
9		(Opera Company Director)
10	Colleen Jennings-Roggensack			14, 39
		(Arts Presenter)
11	Luis Valdez					16, 44
12		(Theater Company Director)
13      William A. Strickland Jr.			21, 50
		(Arts Administrator/Ceramist)
14	Kenneth M. Jarin 	                        26
15     	 	(Patron/Trustee)
16	Leo J. O'Donovan, S.J.		                28
		(University President)
17	Richard J. Stern				31
18       	(Patron/Trustee)
19      Patrick Davidson				35
		(Television Producer)
20	Wallace D. McRae				46, 49
21        	(Rancher/Poet)
22	Ronald Feldman					54, 59
		(Art Gallery Owner)
1                  P R O C E E D I N G S
2               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Right now I'd
3     like to introduce our very special guest, who
4     probably needs no introduction, but she is a
5     committed person to the youth of America in
6     particular and the arts right now.  And I want
7     to introduce Attorney General Janet Reno.
8               Welcome.
9                    (Applause)
10               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  I thank you
11     for that warm welcome.
12               But I should be applauding you, Jane,
13     and so many others who have done so much in
14     these last three years to promote the arts and
15     to promote the freedom that the arts demand.
16     And I thank you so very much for your
17     leadership.
18               Somebody asked me, "Why are you going
19     over there?"
20               (Laughter)
21               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  And the
22     answer is very simple.
1               Madelyn Ander (phonetic) tried to
2     teach me music.  And she said, "Mrs. Reno, the
3     little girl just can't get above G."
4               (Laughter)
5               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  And my art
6     teachers just stared.
7               But my aunt, who was the music and
8     art critic at the Miami Herald, was a wonderful
9     teacher and took me to dress rehearsals of the
10     Greater Miami Opera when I was about 11 and
11     introduced me to wonderful worlds.  And I
12     remember that.
13               And I think it is critical, as we
14     address the problem of young people in America
15     and the violence and the drugs that beset them,
16     that we try to do everything we can to provide
17     other alternatives and other opportunities.
18               As a prosecutor in Miami for 15
19     years, I looked at presentence investigations
20     of young men we had just adjudicated guilty of
21     an armed robbery at 17.  And I can see three or
22     four places along the way where we could have
1     intervened in that child's life to have made a
2     difference, to have given him a constructive,
3     crime-free future.  And we had failed to
4     intervene.
5               I try to make it a point to talk to
6     young people who have been in trouble or who
7     are in trouble as I travel across the Nation.
8               And they tell me time and again, when
9     I ask them, "What could have been done to have
10     prevented this problem in the first place?"
11               The first thing they tell me is,
12     "Somebody to talk to, somebody who understands
13     how difficult it is to grow up in American
14     today" -- how important it is to have somebody
15     you can go to that can give you support when
16     you need it and discipline when you need it.
17               And the second thing that they talk
18     about is, "Something constructive to do in the
19     afternoon and evenings."  And that is a theme
20     that comes back again and again and again.
21               Sports has been the opportunity that
22     many have found.  But what I hear from so many
1     young men and women is, "Something other than
2     sports."
3               I think sports is a wonderful
4     vehicle.  I think we've got to be very careful,
5     as we encourage young people both in sports and
6     in art, that we don't make them think that
7     everybody can be totally successful, but that
8     we use sports and the arts as means of giving
9     them a fuller, stronger character with which to
10     enjoy the world for the rest of their lives.
11               It has been so rewarding for me,
12     therefore, to have had the chance to talk to
13     Jane shortly after she took office and to find
14     that we shared the sense that the arts could be
15     a wonderful vehicle for constructive pursuits
16     for our young people, giving them an
17     opportunity to explore new worlds, to develop
18     new talents, and to believe in themselves a
19     little bit more than they do.
20               I have now followed in Jane's
21     footsteps:  To Minneapolis to a wonderful
22     project in the neighborhood, where they said,
1     "Jane Alexander has been here, and she saw what
2     we were doing with young people.  And it has
3     made a difference, because we know we're doing
4     it right."
5               And to talk with a young person who
6     is active with the Dance Theatre in Denver,
7     "Jane Alexander has been here, and we feel good
8     about what we're doing in terms of outreach to
9     students."
10               I brought with me something that you
11     might -- and I think it's one of the great
12     documents that I've seen in the last two or
13     three years.  It's called "Great Transitions"
14     by the Carnegie Foundation, "Preparing
15     Adolescents for a New Century."
16               I think it describes, just briefly,
17     the real challenge that we face today, with
18     high divorce rates, increases in both parents
19     working, and the growth of single parents.
20               Slightly more than half of all
21     American children will spend at least part of
22     their childhood or adolescence living with only
1     one parent.
2               In this situation, exacerbated by the
3     erosion of neighborhood networks and other
4     traditional support systems, children now spend
5     significantly less time in the company of
6     adults than a few decades ago.  More of their
7     time is spent in front of the television set or
8     with their peers, in age-segregated,
9     unsupervised environments.
10               It notes that about 25 percent have
11     already engaged in at-risk behaviors.  And
12     others face the potential, for as many as 50
13     percent will do so in this unsupervised time.
14               Thus, it's exciting, to me, to see
15     the steps that you have taken.  And I would
16     like to support you, in every way I can, in
17     future steps to make it a comprehensive
18     initiative around the country.
19               There are some unusual allies that
20     you might not be aware of.  And just think
21     about it for a moment.
22               The National Association of Parks and
1     Recreation Professionals has identified
2     programs for children at risk as one of their
3     priorities.
4               And what can we do if we reach out
5     across disciplines and across towns and
6     organize more effectively in our parks and our
7     recreation facilities of this Nation real
8     opportunities for young people in the world of
9     arts?
10               Community police are a whole new
11     force in this Nation.  They are very good at
12     getting evidence from people because the people
13     trust them.
14               But they are also very good at being
15     on the cutting edge of giving people a sense
16     that they can be self-sufficient, that they can
17     live in their neighborhood, that they can enjoy
18     their neighborhood.  I think it might be fun to
19     see what the COPS Program can do in terms of
20     some partnerships there.
21               But most of all, I came here today to
22     tell you how much I want to support you and how
1     much I value your work.
2               I would suggest two challenges that
3     are important:  First, what can we do with your
4     young people who are in prison who are coming
5     out sooner rather than later, sometimes coming
6     out without skills or without any sense of
7     self-esteem?
8               Yesterday I had the chance to hear of
9     a young man who had been to prison for 18
10     months, learned to play the piano in prison,
11     came back after serving time for the drug
12     charge and became a youth counselor and is, I
13     believe, on his way to college to become a
14     certified counselor to work with young people.
15               Just think of what we can do if we
16     use arts in the prison to give people a sense
17     of self-esteem, a sense of value.
18               And the second is:  I think it
19     critically important that we encourage efforts
20     with the American Indians.  They are such a
21     great part of the tradition of this Nation and
22     this continent.  They do such wonderful work in
1     the arts, perpetuating their traditions.
2               The Department of Justice has tried
3     to reach out to Indian tribes across the
4     Nation, to listen to them, to hear, and to try
5     to be responsive in matters of tribal justice
6     and tribal law enforcement.  And we would look
7     forward to working with you in that area as
8     well.
9               But I would be happy to answer your
10     questions or take your ideas about what the
11     Department of Justice can be doing to be more
12     effective in this effort.
13               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Thank you very
14     much, General Reno.
15               Are there questions or comments?
16     Speight.
17               MR. JENKINS:  General, we at Seattle
18     Opera have had a remarkable success in one
19     area.
20               There's the Echo Glen Juvenile
21     Detention Center in Seattle, which is basically
22     for sexual offenders.  And we started four
1     years ago -- they were very eager to do this --
2     with having -- every Sunday night they have an
3     hour to two hours on opera, a section
4     specifically on opera, working with our
5     stories, working with what we do.
6               People from my company go out twice a
7     month and spend an hour with these kids.  And
8     every one of our dress rehearsals, we bring
9     between 7 and 10 of these juvenile offenders to
10     the dress rehearsal with guards.
11               And they sit -- we have -- we bring a
12     thousand children to each of our dress
13     rehearsals, and they -- I mean, a thousand
14     teenage -- you know, high school.  They sit
15     upstairs.
16               We have them down in the orchestra
17     section, where no one else sits.  But we have
18     the guards and they come.  And it has been
19     really a remarkable program.
20               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  Oh, that's
21     wonderful.  What I'll do is ask our Office of
22     Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention to
1     be in touch with whomever you would suggest,
2     because I'd like to see what we can do to
3     spread that concept.
4               MR. JENKINS:  Because it has really
5     been unique.  And it has been so interesting
6     how opera stories, dealing as they do with
7     archetypes and things like that, have made a
8     tremendous influence on the children.
9               And I think that one of the things
10     that might be surprising is how they have --
11     how much they did with the "Ring."  Because of
12     the "Ring," of course, dealing as it does with
13     so many problems of the human family, they
14     really got into that.  It was fascinating how
15     many times they've been able to do that.
16               And the other thing we've done is
17     that there's a home for abused women in Seattle
18     which we've also started working with.  And
19     we've found that there we've had people who, on
20     more than, I think, 10 or 12 occasions -- 10 or
21     12 people who had not left the home for two
22     years because they were so terrified.
1               So we came in and talked to them.
2     They were wiling to come to the opera to a
3     dress rehearsal to see it, because we talked to
4     them about it.
5               They particularly -- for instance,
6     you talk to me about an opera like "Electra,"
7     and they were completely fascinated and
8     couldn't wait to come and see it; because it
9     was, unfortunately, their life.
10               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  I'll call
11     them up, if I may.
12               MR. JENKINS:  Yes, ma'am, please.
13               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  Great.
14               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Colleen.
15               MS. JENNINGS-ROGGENSACK:  Ms. Reno,
16     in Arizona we've been very fortunate to have
17     two very solid relationships with our County
18     Attorney, Rick Romley (phonetic), and with our
19     own Attorney General, Grant Woods.
20               As a result of efforts on the part of
21     Arizona State's Commission on the Arts and a
22     variety of arts administrators throughout the
1     state, we have a program called "The Apple
2     Corps," where we have been granted the RICO
3     funds, the drug reassessment monies, and taken
4     those funds and supported artists in the
5     schools and provided programs for them.
6               In addition, both the Attorney
7     General and the County Attorney have granted
8     additional funds and worked with our own
9     organization at Arizona State University in
10     doing a "Take Back Your Life" program, where we
11     have worked in conjunction with popular
12     artists, like Paul Rodriguez, and worked with
13     not only bringing children to the theatre,
14     young people, but going to places like Adobe
15     Mountain, which is a detention center for
16     juveniles.
17               It is a breathtakingly important
18     project.  And I think anything that you can do
19     to encourage other attorney generals and their
20     states and country attorneys to look at those
21     funds that are in each of our states because of
22     the drug problems that we are encountering, and
1     use those to support the arts and education
2     would be extraordinarily helpful.
3               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  Let me talk
4     with Grant Woods and then with the National
5     Association of Attorneys General and see what
6     we might do.  That would be a wonderful idea.
7               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Thank you.
8     Luis.
9               MR. VALDEZ:  Attorney General, it's a
10     pleasure to meet you and thank you for all the
11     great work that you have done in your capacity.
12               In California, prisons are a growth
13     industry.  That's both a tragedy and a reality.
14               The university that I work with has,
15     as a nearby neighbor, the Soledad Prison, as
16     well as Vacaville State Prison.
17               And those are two prisons that I have
18     been inside as a performer and also as a
19     filmmaker, having conversations and workshops
20     with the inmates.  The continuing tragedy is
21     that the inmates seem to be getting younger and
22     younger.
1               And one of the solutions that we are
2     working with within my field is the possibility
3     to get the inmates writing.
4               If it's poetry, that's a beginning,
5     and that's beautiful.  If it's a novel, that's
6     great.
7               What I'm trying to steer them toward
8     is screenplays.  Because if anything is
9     commercial and fashionable in Hollywood, it's
10     always criminality.  So why not make a business
11     of it?
12               And so I try to encourage these
13     prisoners, these inmates, to express the
14     tragedies of their lives in some kind of
15     dramatic form.
16               I don't think that we -- we have not
17     worked out all the details yet as to how they
18     might be compensated or whether the state would
19     allow that.
20               But I think that any form of literary
21     expression which fits, unfortunately, the
22     confines of a cell -- as a writer, I know what
1     it is to sit at a computer.  At home, actually,
2     I'm in prison when I'm working on something.
3               And so it might work that, with the
4     time given to inmates, that they might be able
5     to come up with new expressions of their
6     reality and in some way hint to the rest of us
7     where the solution might lie.
8               The arts are a reforming power and
9     force in the life of all of us.  And it is so
10     for those people that are incarcerated in the
11     Nation's prisons as much as it is for the poets
12     and the playwrights and composers that live
13     outside.
14               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  One of the
15     most interesting things that I have seen, in
16     just receiving letters from inmates, some that
17     you can barely decipher, and others that you
18     can decipher and that are powerful, but in an
19     idiom that most people wouldn't accept, is how
20     we appreciate the written expression in the so
21     many different forms that it takes, and
22     understand that it is an expression in many
1     instances from the heart.
2               I think that's one of the great
3     challenges of the English language now.  And it
4     is so fascinating to me to see how expressive
5     it can be.
6               It is also fascinating to me to see
7     how people still haven't learned to write,
8     including lawyers.
9                    (Laughter)
10               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  And one of my
11     missions is to make sure that I do everything I
12     can while at the Department of Justice to get
13     lawyers to use small, old words and talk in
14     terms that people can understand.
15                    (Laughter)
16               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  Which leads
17     to another initiative that I think you have
18     made a contribution to.  And I think it's
19     important.
20               There is something really exciting
21     happening across this land in schools, at the
22     Air Force Academy, with lawyers.  And that is
1     that people are focusing on how we can resolve
2     our conflicts in the legal realm without
3     trials, expensive trials; how we can resolve
4     kids' conflicts in school without knives and
5     guns and fists; how we can resolve conflicts so
6     that we don't have to go to lawyers.
7               And the contributions that you all
8     have made in terms of how the arts can play a
9     role in this, oftentimes just by a matter of
10     expression.
11               I saw something yesterday in
12     Philadelphia that was so exciting.  I saw
13     youngsters playing roles that taught them how
14     to talk with each other; what body language
15     means; what a tone of voice means; how you can
16     use a tone of voice and body language to
17     resolve the conflict, rather than to create it.
18               And it made me think, as I watched
19     this absolutely wonderful teacher take these
20     youngsters in a difficult area through some of
21     the steps, this is art at its best.  And it's
22     how we communicate, how we talk to each other.
1               So there are some exciting things
2     that I think can be done in that area as well.
3               But there is a whole notion in this
4     land that we don't have to be as divisive, as
5     fussy, as litigious, as violent; that we ought
6     to be able to sit down and resolve a lot of our
7     conflicts in a lot better way.  And I think the
8     arts can lead the way, in terms of teaching us
9     how to communicate.
10               Winston Churchill said we should use
11     the small "o" words, and I think it helps.
12                    (Laughter)
13               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Bill.
14               MR. STRICKLAND:  One of the areas,
15     General Reno, that has impressed me about your
16     leadership is in the clear understanding that
17     the most cost-effective way to deal with crime
18     is to prevent it in the first place.
19               Your thoughts, in terms of how we can
20     get to the children before they become
21     criminals, have impressed me over the years.
22     And I was wondering if you might share some of
1     your thoughts in terms of the prevention area
2     and how sports and the arts and similar
3     activity can prevent children from becoming
4     criminals in the first place.
5               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  One of the
6     first things that we, tragically, have to do --
7     because as you look at the increase in prisons
8     and the younger offenders there, one of the
9     things we've got to do is to make our
10     neighborhoods safe enough so that people will
11     come out and share their talents, and so that
12     people will come out and go to the local
13     community center after school and in the
14     evening to participate or go to the park.
15               But I feel very strongly that we have
16     to do it in a whole way.  And that as we work
17     on programs in the arts and communities, it has
18     to be linked to other areas.
19               Children can overcome so much, but
20     they have so much adversity in so many
21     situations.
22               And one of the things that I would be
1     interested in -- I've never heard the artists
2     talk about this, and it would be interesting.
3     But let me just give you my experience.
4               When the crack epidemic hit Miami in
5     1985, the doctors took me to our large public
6     hospital to figure out what to do about
7     crack-involved infants and their mothers.
8               Should we prosecute the mothers?  Was
9     the child dependent?  When did we send the
10     child home with the mother?  And I spent a lot
11     of time with child development experts.  They
12     taught me, at the time, that the first three
13     years of life are the most formative; that 50
14     percent of all learned human response was
15     learned in that first year of life; that the
16     concept of reward and punishment and the
17     conscience was developed during the first three
18     years.
19               You could see it with these children
20     who had remained in the nursery because they
21     could not be sent home and they had been there
22     for six weeks.  The nursery was becoming
1     overcrowded because the epidemic hit so
2     suddenly.
3               And those crack-involved infants had
4     not been held or talked to except when changed
5     and fed.  And they were not beginning to
6     respond with human emotions after six weeks.
7     They were lying there almost as little animals.
8     They just weren't responding.
9               Whereas, the child across the room
10     who had severe birth defects, but with parents
11     around the clock -- one just there all the
12     time, or as much as possible -- that child was
13     beginning to respond through the pain with
14     really human emotion.
15               When do we start focusing on the
16     arts?  Obviously, music is a magical part of
17     that time.  Obviously, pictures and the
18     concepts.
19               And so one of the things that I would
20     urge you to do, as we talk about prevention,
21     is, as I've urged others, remember those first
22     three years.
1               The afternoon and evening programs
2     are so critical.
3               That unsupervised time that the
4     Carnegie Foundation refers to is so critical.
5               What can we do with after-school
6     programs?  What can we do with parks and
7     recreation?  What can we do on weekends to
8     involve them?  How can we participate with
9     others?
10               You were talking about technology.
11     And I think one of the great things of word
12     processors is it's so easy to change what you
13     mess up.  You can edit yourself a lot better.
14               And what we could do, in terms of
15     interactive video, in teaching children how to
16     express themselves and in introducing them to
17     poetry and showing them how to -- there are
18     just so many things that we can do if we
19     understand the tremendous potential out there.
20               But the one thing I would stress to
21     you, I've heard coaches tell me, "It's wrong to
22     encourage kids too much in sports, because only
1     a very few will be successful."
2               And when they get into it in high
3     school, they all want to be the Heisman trophy
4     winner in four years, and they all want to play
5     for the Dolphins or somebody else.  And most of
6     them are never going to make it.
7               And probably all want to be the great
8     singer and to go to the Met, but they're not
9     all going to make it.
10               And they're not all going to get
11     published.  I think one of the great challenges
12     that we have for our young people is to give
13     them the gift of arts, to give them the gift of
14     recreation and sports as part of an inner self,
15     as opposed to a part of fame.
16               And I think that is one of the real
17     challenges that we face.
18               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Yes, Ken Jarin.
19               MR. JARIN:  General Reno, I'm not the
20     only attorney on the Council.  I think I'm the
21     only practicing attorney.  And I share your
22     sentiments about lawyers learning how to write.
1               When young people ask me, "What
2     should I study in college to be a lawyer," I
3     say, "Learn how to write a sentence and a
4     paragraph," because that's so important.
5               I thought, perhaps through your
6     leadership, there might be an effort to
7     encourage bar associations, particularly the
8     young lawyers' groups in the bar associations,
9     to work with the regional umbrella arts
10     organizations in some combined effort --
11               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  Well, that's
12     a marvelous idea.
13               MR. JARIN:  -- to reach out to young
14     people.  Those organizations are often looking
15     for things to do that are meaningful for a
16     community.  And perhaps that would be a way to
17     bring those two groups together -- perhaps
18     through some sponsorships of programs to bring
19     children to the arts, or arts to children.
20               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  You know,
21     you've given me -- let me take that up with the
22     ABA.  I think that could be fascinating.  And I
1     will pursue that.
2               But, as somebody mentioned, the
3     problem of domestic violence, too.  And it is a
4     wonderful feeling to sit in a -- Donna Shalala
5     and I have an Advisory Council on Family and
6     Domestic Violence, and we have representatives
7     of the AMA and the ABA there together.
8               It might be fascinating to see what
9     we could do through both organizations in terms
10     of outreach to women in battered-spouse
11     shelters who are victims of domestic violence,
12     because it's being approached now both from a
13     public health perspective and a legal
14     criminal-justice perspective.  And maybe both
15     could do some interesting work there.
16               So that's two good ideas.  Thank you.
17               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Father Leo.
18               FR. O'DONOVAN:  Thanks again,
19     Attorney General Reno, for coming.
20               Your remarks on the hesitance of
21     coaches to encourage young people fascinate me.
22     Because it's undoubted that we have heros of
1     sports in the country who've become icons for
2     young people through their success, almost as
3     much through their extra-sports success, their
4     endorsement of products, their fabulous
5     contracts, their entry into the world of the
6     Carnegies and Mellons, but by a different
7     route, in terms of financial remuneration.
8               Since I think you're right that we
9     must take a broad approach to neighborhoods and
10     encourage sports as well as arts, it reminds me
11     that there's a great body of literature on the
12     meaning of sports which, I take it, is
13     essentially not about winning but about
14     playing, since you need a winner to make most
15     sports interesting, but you don't play only to
16     win, you play primarily to play; which brings
17     it much closer to art, as these people point
18     out, than one might think and, indeed, to
19     religion.
20               You give yourself up to the rules of
21     the game.  You don't reconstitute how baseball
22     is played every time you play it.
1               You play as a team in many sports.
2     You are dependent on a great deal of tradition,
3     a public that likes the sport -- if it's only
4     family and friends or your school chums.
5               What I'm led to think is that we have
6     to think about educating not only the children
7     but the coaches.  Because if they think that
8     the only successes will be the youngsters who
9     go into the NBA or even the minor leagues or
10     their successors, boy, that's a disaster.
11               And as an educator, I am reminded how
12     fortunate any school is if its coaches are
13     coaching students, student athletes, and not
14     just potential successes.
15               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  Father Leo, I
16     named my colt "Dodger" after the Brooklyn
17     Dodgers.  And I followed Jackie Robinson and
18     Pee Wee Reese and Don Newcombe in every way
19     that I could, and I got very upset when the
20     Dodgers moved to Los Angeles.
21               But one of the things that always
22     fascinated me about baseball -- I knew I
1     couldn't grow up to play on the Brooklyn
2     Dodgers, but it was fascinating to me that a
3     pitcher could put a pitch over that plate in
4     that narrow line.
5               So I used to spend summers pitching
6     against a wall to see whether I could do it.
7     And never dreaming that I would be famous, but
8     just there was a certain part of it.
9               I have often wished I could sing, to
10     do the same thing.
11               But, as my mother said, "What will
12     you take not to sing anymore?"
13                    (Laughter)
14               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Yes, Dick Stern.
15               MR. STERN:  I'm on the board of the
16     Chicago Symphony Orchestra.  And one of the
17     things that we do at the Chicago Symphony is
18     try to get into the schools.  We have musicians
19     going to the schools all over the Chicago area
20     and playing to get the students interested in
21     music.
22               In addition to that, we have eight
1     concerts that are what we call "family
2     concerts."  In reality, they're children's
3     concerts.  They're concerts for the children
4     which we hope the family will participate in.
5     And they're always sold out.
6               And this is one area to get the
7     children interested in classical music,
8     contemporary music, which we think is very,
9     very good.
10               But we had one more idea -- one which
11     I had, as a matter of fact.  We haven't been
12     able to do it yet, but we're trying.  And that
13     is to get a basketball celebrity -- a Michael
14     Jordan, if you will -- to have something like a
15     "Peter and the Wolf" in the Chicago Stadium and
16     allow the children to come in -- of course,
17     without fee.
18               I think if we can do more and more to
19     encourage the children to get into the musical
20     area or any of the arts -- and, as a matter of
21     fact, encourage the athletes, the leading
22     athletes, to help them do it -- I think we can
1     start programs which will further the child's
2     growth.
3               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  Let me
4     suggest to you what I think is one of the
5     critical challenges, though, in that
6     undertaking.  And it goes back to how we
7     prevent.
8               You're reaching out to children that
9     -- in the first place, they become fascinated
10     by the trumpet, but they don't begin to have
11     the money for the trumpet.  And they don't have
12     a mother who will scrounge and they don't have
13     an advocate who will scrounge to find the
14     money.
15               If they're lucky, they will have a
16     music teacher at school who will become their
17     advocate.  And the music teacher will focus
18     probably on those that have real talent, and
19     she may get them off on the right foot.
20               But there will be one who would just
21     thoroughly enjoy playing the trumpet, wouldn't
22     be great, but would have a wonderful time with
1     it.  And there's no advocate to get him that
2     trumpet.
3               Or if they can, there is no advocate
4     in that child's life that teaches him the
5     discipline of how to learn that trumpet,
6     because he has simply not had the structure
7     around his life that disciplines him to learn
8     anything.
9               And as I was reminded yesterday as I
10     visited the Philadelphia community, we have got
11     to go beyond our traditional efforts to expose
12     people to the arts and to the wonderful things
13     of the world, and really almost reweave the
14     fabric of community around some children who
15     have been dramatically at risk.
16               We're playing catch-up ball.  It's
17     remedial.  But I refuse to give up on a
18     generation.
19               And so as you think about it, think
20     about what might happen if musicians, not
21     necessarily in the orchestra -- but if the
22     orchestra linked with one of the universities,
1     if we could develop mentoring programs where
2     musicians were in the community with the
3     children, say once a week or on a weekly basis,
4     and we found used instruments for every child
5     that was interested, it could be so exciting.
6               But we would have to provide that
7     follow-up to reach the young people that we're
8     talking about who are so terribly at risk.
9               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Patrick
10     Davidson.
11               MR. DAVIDSON:  I'm currently a
12     television producer, but I used to be a
13     probation officer.  So I come to this in kind
14     of an odd perspective.
15               And it struck me, in the conversation
16     that's taking place, you have access to people
17     who have a tremendous influence on young
18     people.  And that is the law enforcement
19     officials, be it probation officers, be it
20     policemen, be it sheriffs.
21               I've seen it, and I've done it, where
22     you become a key person in that individual's
1     life.
2               And what strikes me is the merger.
3     We keep talking about sports, and we keep
4     talking about the arts.  And you talk to any
5     good probation officer or outreach worker, and
6     they all know of taking a kid to a ball game.
7               But the idea of taking a child to a
8     community play, you know, to a theatre
9     performance, and exposing them and, in fact, in
10     many cases exposing both of them and sharing
11     that experience, is a tremendous opportunity.
12               And also, to take it one step
13     further, since we have, unfortunately, millions
14     of children that are in search of families, I
15     have seen -- and I think all of us have seen --
16     what happens in a theatre environment, where
17     the theatre performers become a community and,
18     in fact, becomes a family unto themselves.  And
19     there's an opportunity for children to become
20     part of that family and to be nurtured by that
21     environment.
22               And so if we can get people outside
1     out of -- I mean, the arts are considered out
2     there.  And my goal -- and I think a lot of us
3     -- is to get it more and more mainstream.
4               And who is more mainstream than the
5     law enforcement officials?  And to get them
6     involved and see the arts as an opportunity to
7     reach out to their community and their
8     constituency is tremendous.
9               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  That is the
10     reason I suggested, at the outset, one area
11     that we might explore is how we could work
12     together through the Community Policing
13     Initiative of the COPS Program to make sure
14     that community police officers -- the President
15     made the commitment to get 100,000 police
16     officers on the streets.  40,000 have been
17     authorized.  They're doing incredibly wonderful
18     things in their communities.  And I think this
19     would be a natural.
20               The other thing, it just occurs to
21     me, as I hear you talk -- for example, Boston
22     is doing some wonderful things, where police
1     officers are working with probation officers as
2     a team.  And that's an exciting possibility.
3     And we might explore, in the Boston area, what
4     could be done as part of that initiative.  And
5     I'll follow up with Jane on that.
6               And the third thing is the
7     International Association of Chiefs of Police
8     has a draft report that it's about to publish
9     on what can be done about youth violence.
10               And you'd be very impressed.  It's
11     not all punishment.  There's a great deal of
12     very thoughtful work done on prevention.
13               And it might be that we can -- let's
14     talk to David Walchek (phonetic) and the new
15     president, and see what we can do to form some
16     links there.
17               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  That's a very
18     good idea.
19               In listening, it occurs to me that,
20     if the first three years of life are so vital
21     in terms of how these young minds are formed,
22     it's the parents that somehow we have to get to
1     as well.  And that's the bigger challenge.
2               Does anybody have any ideas about
3     that?
4               Colleen.
5               MS. JENNINGS-ROGGENSACK:  I would
6     just add a fourth idea to Patrick's list.
7               In Arizona, again, working with our
8     County Attorney Rick Romley (phonetic) in
9     Maricopa County, we have formulated a two-year
10     project with the American Festival Project.
11     And that's a group of artists who are committed
12     to social change in a community.
13               We are working with the three police
14     forces in the area, the Phoenix police and the
15     Tempe police and Mesa police force, in a
16     technique that's known as a story circle.
17               We're not only working with the
18     police officers, but with community members in
19     each of those communities, to bring a humane
20     approach and an interchange of what each
21     other's lives are like.
22               We've begun this year by working with
1     the Phoenix police -- I think the artists said
2     this is the first time they had worked in a
3     room with 80 people with guns on -- and in
4     bringing out the stories of their lives and
5     combining those stories together with the end
6     result of it being a staged work.
7               We are also working with the children
8     and with a variety of ages, from seniors to
9     young people, in that project.
10               Those funds are, again, RICO funds
11     that we are using to access that.
12               But we have worked with Banc One and
13     accessed corporate funds, and are doing a
14     similar story circle project with corporate
15     leaders in the Valley.
16               And I think that's a hands-on real
17     project that you can use with artists who are
18     currently working in that milieu.
19               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  One of the
20     things that you might do, Jane, is -- I think
21     people are recognizing more and more that
22     "educare" -- I call it "educare," those first
1     three years, not child care -- but let's really
2     use that time the right way.
3               And I think there are some national
4     associations of child care professionals, and
5     it might be interesting to see what we could do
6     working together with them in that regard.
7               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Speight.
8               MR. JENKINS:  What I was going to --
9     sort of what I was going to say, one of the
10     things that we found very successful in Seattle
11     is to, since there are so few music teachers --
12     you made the point of a music teacher -- when
13     there are, they're wonderful.  But,
14     unfortunately, in most of our public schools
15     today, we have so few of them.
16               We have moved in on teaching
17     teachers.  This is what we do.  We go --
18     particularly humanities teachers, English, and
19     history -- because it's far -- we have proved
20     to them it's far more interesting to teach
21     Spanish history, for instance, by working with
22     "Don Carlo," than it is just where they can
1     actually see a "Don Carlo," than it is just
2     teaching Spanish History, and so on and so
3     forth.
4               What I wonder is -- I know -- in New
5     York, which is where I came from originally, I
6     know there is an early childhood development
7     program which specifically works with kids 18
8     months to 3 years.  And I know it's a big
9     program.  I think it's national.  I think there
10     are a lot of these.
11               It seems to me, in response to what
12     Jane said, if we could get these early
13     childhood development programs, if we could get
14     them to understand from the opera companies,
15     from the symphonies, you know, to include us in
16     coming in and doing something with them.
17               I mean, I know the Seattle Opera
18     would be happy to do it.  I think a lot of
19     people would in the large arts groups, who have
20     big education programs as we do, to get in and
21     start working with them.
22               I think it's an idea that's quite --
1     would be quite feasible.  I'm sure the Met
2     would love to do it in New York -- you know.
3               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  One of the
4     things that -- I have to admit to a bias -- my
5     mother would never let us have television
6     because she said it contributed to mind rot.
7     And so I don't look at it too much.
8               And going back to technology, I
9     marvel at what technology can do.  But it also
10     has -- except in rare instances, you don't see
11     that human quality of a child who is rocked to
12     sleep by somebody singing a lullaby, or
13     somebody who is read by a voice that they know
14     well and that is a familiar voice that means
15     home and love, read "Wynken, Blynken, and Nod,"
16     or others.
17               And some of it is not that
18     complicated.  It's just the beautiful books,
19     with the person, with the touch and the feeling
20     that nothing in technology can match.
21               And that, I think, is one of the keys
22     that we need to face.
1               MR. VALDEZ:  May I respond to that?
2               The concept of high tech is only half
3     the equation.  And another phrase that we are
4     using more and more -- my colleagues and I at
5     the university -- is "high touch."  You cannot
6     have high tech without "high touch."
7               You cannot have a lot of computers
8     without, by that very act of acquiring
9     computers, emphasize the wonder of just plain
10     earth and clean air and nature.
11               And so these are contradictions,
12     these are paradoxes that are part of life, and
13     they work together.  They enhance each other.
14               So, in that sense, it -- education
15     begins with that first touch.  And, then, it
16     extends there to a concept of what intelligence
17     is.
18               More recent research, actually with
19     psychologists and educators and so forth, has
20     indicated there are at least seven kinds of
21     intelligence, not just linear rational
22     thinking, but also spatial and motor thinking.
1     There's intuitive emotional intelligence.
2               When Michael Jordan drops one from
3     three-quarters across the court, it's because
4     he has a certain kind of human intelligence
5     that brings awe to all of his admirers.
6               And it's that way with gymnasts.  We
7     saw the Olympics recently.
8               And it's that way with musicians and
9     actors and dancers.
10               People need to understand that the
11     arts are not a luxury, that the arts are not
12     frivolous, that if you are going to fund
13     scientific activity in this country, you must,
14     for balance, fund the arts.
15               You cannot have the sciences funded
16     for a billion dollars on the one hand and the
17     arts for $99 million on the other.  The scale
18     is totally out of kilter.
19               And the arts are science.  The
20     sciences are art.
21               And what artists do is, they advance
22     human research on the nature of our human
1     being.  And this involves children at the
2     earliest stages, as well as elders at the other
3     extreme.
4               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Thank you, Luis.
5               Wally McRae.
6               MR. McRAE:  I'm from Montana.  And I,
7     first of all, would like to thank you and
8     congratulate you for the peaceful way that you
9     resolved my neighbors, the Freemen holdouts.
10               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Here, here.
11               MR. McRAE:  Being from Montana, we
12     have seven Indian reservations and a
13     disproportionate number of people that are
14     incarcerated in the state prison.  And also,
15     since crimes on Indian reservations are
16     prosecuted in Federal Court, a lot of the
17     federal prisoners from Montana are Native
18     Americans.
19               And I was sitting here wondering if
20     there would be some way to work with Native
21     American arts with those incarcerated Native
22     Americans.  There's a lot of good things about
1     it.  I mean, why should they have to move out
2     of their culture to do something?
3               The second reason that I would be an
4     advocate of is, it would help to solve some of
5     the unemployment problems on the reservation,
6     to bring someone into the prison system to
7     teach them in some of the Native American arts
8     like beadwork.  That's primarily the art form
9     across the seven reservations in Montana --
10     beadwork, not pottery or silver or things like
11     that.  It's beadwork.
12               So you could provide some employment.
13     And then, after the prisoner is released from
14     prison, there's a wonderful demand out there
15     for authentic Native American arts.
16               When I was on my way to Billings the
17     other day, I stopped in a trading post, and
18     Indian tanned buckskin and beaded moccasins are
19     pretty pricey.  So there is a great demand for
20     those.
21               So maybe that would be a way where
22     you can involve someone in the arts within
1     their own culture, since there is such a high
2     population in some of our Western states of
3     Native Americans that are incarcerated.
4               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  What we're
5     trying to do is to work with the tribes and
6     develop, in every way possible, tribal justice
7     initiatives that can blend -- a Native American
8     will talk to me and say, "Our culture is
9     different than yours.  Yours is an adversary
10     culture that has to prove somebody guilty, and
11     it's accusatory and adversarial.  Ours is how
12     do we resolve the matter peacefully."
13               They talk about sentencing circles,
14     for example, where the community sits around
15     and figures out how to resolve this so it won't
16     happen again.
17               And in light of that, I think we
18     could do perhaps some exciting things in terms
19     of pursuing tribal traditions, in pursuing the
20     Native American art.
21               And I will talk with the director of
22     the Bureau of Prisons, likewise, about the
1     possibility of employment skills.
2               I do think, though, just from looking
3     at the whole issue of the tribes across the
4     land, we've got to figure out how they can
5     remain on their tribal lands, how they can be
6     self-sufficient.  And art by itself won't do
7     it.
8               And that's one of the great
9     challenges where I think technology -- I think
10     a lot of us are going to be working a long way
11     from urban centers because of technology.  And
12     I think that special blend is going to be a
13     challenge, but I think it's possible.  And I
14     think the arts can play a real role.
15               MR. McRAE:  The only response that I
16     would have is that there are a lot of
17     differences between different tribal cultures.
18               I think that probably -- for
19     instance, my neighbors, the Crows, would tend
20     to resolve things peacefully; where the
21     Cheyennes, my closer neighbors, probably would
22     not.
1               So the danger is to lump everyone
2     together and say, "Okay.  All of these Indian
3     cultures are the same, and this is the way that
4     strife and controversy is resolved."
5               And it's the same way in the arts.  I
6     think that it would be ludicrous to teach
7     Navajos beadwork.  That's not part of their
8     culture.  And I think it would be just as
9     strange to teach Cheyennes to do turquoise
10     silverwork.
11               So you've got to be a little bit
12     tribally specific in order to be successful, I
13     believe.
14               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  That's the
15     reason we're trying to emphasize tribal
16     justice, so that we work -- the U.S. Attorney
17     and the FBI on many cases lets the tribal
18     system -- that we reinforce the tribal system
19     and we let that tribe's cultural backgrounds
20     and cultural justice apply.
21               It's a remarkable challenge, because
22     there are so many different tribes with
1     different traditions.  But you're right,
2     exactly on point.
3               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Bill, did you
4     have something else?
5               MR. STRICKLAND:  In my experience,
6     being a member of the National Council, we've
7     never been short on good ideas or imaginative
8     solutions to problems.  We have been a little
9     bit short on cash.
10               (Laughter)
11               MR. STRICKLAND:  And I'm just
12     wondering whether or not there might be some
13     opportunity to use the prestige of the Attorney
14     General's office and, of course, the prestige
15     of the Chairman's office, to think about new
16     ways of generating revenue to support many of
17     these very fine initiatives that we all agree
18     are essential, such as whether or not it makes
19     sense to appeal to people's self-interests,
20     like the health care industry, for example, the
21     insurance companies, that are finding
22     themselves with spiralling and out-of-control
1     health care costs and not very imaginative ways
2     to contain them; whether or not it makes sense
3     to talk with some of the leaders of these
4     industries, to say, "A little bit of prevention
5     on the front is going to save you an awful lot
6     of money on the tail end," the hospital visits,
7     the emergency room visits, the violence, and so
8     forth; that whether or not it makes any sense
9     to be begin to try and advance another way of
10     thinking about this opportunity to save
11     children before they become criminals.
12               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  I've spent
13     most of the last 10 years doing that, and at
14     the same time being a prosecutor and pointing
15     out that we are never going to be able to build
16     enough prisons.
17               And I just put it in terms of being
18     cost-effective.  When I talk to businessmen, I
19     say we can make an investment of a dollar in
20     prenatal care and save three dollars in health
21     care costs down the road.
22               We can make an investment of a dollar
1     in "educare" and give the child a good
2     foundation and save a bunch of dollars down the
3     road in remedial programs and free teachers'
4     time to teach the new skills.  It's a message
5     that has got to be given again and again.
6               And I think you would find far
7     greater acceptance than you think amongst a lot
8     of people.  They are absolutely committed to
9     doing prevention as long as they see it works.
10               MR. STRICKLAND:  Yes, right.
11               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  And one of
12     the problems, however, is that you may have a
13     great prevention program for zero through
14     three; but, then, if you don't have afternoon
15     and evening programs for the kid when he's in
16     elementary school, all the good work goes for
17     naught.
18               And that's the reason so much of this
19     must be done within the community --
20               MR. STRICKLAND:  Uh-huh.
21               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  -- with
22     Washington trying to fill in places that the
1     community can't fit.
2               And it really comes back again, also,
3     to caring people.  And the volunteerism that's
4     springing up, the corporate willingness to let
5     employees volunteer and to participate I think
6     is encouraging.
7               The dollar issue is going to be a
8     difficult issue, but I think more and more
9     people are understanding that an early
10     investment in children of a relatively small
11     amount saves us health care costs, prison
12     costs, lives.
13               And also, as I point out to industry,
14     unless we invest in our children, we're not
15     going to have a workforce that can fill the
16     jobs with the skills necessary to maintain that
17     company and this Nation as first-rate companies
18     and nations.
19               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Ron Feldman.
20               MR. FELDMAN:  Yes, Madam Attorney
21     General, I've heard you addressed this morning
22     -- and I think I've used the sixth term to
1     address you.  So, speaking about language, you
2     can see that we're all quite inventive.  I
3     don't know which would be the best term.
4     Probably all would suffice.
5               It seems to me that we're suffering,
6     in the arts, an audience crisis.  We are
7     finding in some cases diminished audiences, and
8     we're finding that we don't have young
9     audiences.  And that's because the arts are not
10     taught in our schools.  They are not taught in
11     any other ways in our lives.
12               And so that as a society we're
13     beginning to devalue this.  And that leads --
14     is possibly a symptom of a society that's in
15     serious trouble.
16               One of the things that would be of
17     great value to the society is to put culture in
18     the center of it, where it belongs.  Most
19     enlightened societies have put it there.  And
20     one of the ways to do that is by example.
21               So, using all the knowledge that we
22     currently have, for example, that prisoners
1     keep coming back, the recidivist rate is very
2     high, that's very expensive.
3               And what's the purpose of letting
4     someone out when we've done nothing to improve
5     the lot of that individual who is then just
6     going to go out for a while, get frightened,
7     and going to be back in prison?
8               And for many prisoners, they're more
9     comfortable in prison.  They don't know how to
10     live in the real world any longer, and they
11     don't have the skills.
12               So it would seem to me that models in
13     any field, particularly in prisons and justice,
14     where you take a prison that is not a good
15     prison, not a model prison, but not a good
16     prison, where the rates are very high, you
17     bring the community in -- and that means the
18     very large community and the local community --
19     and you begin to apply all the skills that
20     we've spoken about today, with a list of
21     programs that might work in that particular
22     prison, and demonstrate that the recidivist
1     rate goes down dramatically in this prison, as
2     opposed to this prison, which is of equal
3     stature, has the same statistics.
4               And then, we have a model where art
5     becomes central or to one of the components
6     which makes for a difference and saves the
7     society and its crime rate in the human
8     tragedy, and also economically.
9               So that all of a sudden resources
10     make sense to be committed to this type of
11     program.  And then the model is something that
12     can be replicated in different ways in
13     different communities, but we have a handle on
14     it.  And then resources will flow to that.
15               And it would seem that as we do that
16     with students and children, and we do that in
17     our prisons and in different places, that the
18     actual models, where the money goes to proving
19     this on a level that would have great respect,
20     would be very helpful.
21               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  There are
22     some examples of programs in prisons that are
1     far more effective than others.  And we try to
2     use those.
3               But one of the problems is that a
4     prison can be just so effective.  If the person
5     goes back to the apartment over the open-air
6     drug market where they got into trouble in the
7     first place, without community support, that
8     becomes a problem.
9               So it is very difficult to measure,
10     as it is difficult to measure the success of
11     prevention programs.  But we are trying to do
12     as much of that as we can.
13               And I think, also -- and I think this
14     is important -- there is something intangible
15     about the arts.  There is a strength, a part of
16     you that the arts create that you can never
17     ever measure.
18               And that is, as it seems to me, to be
19     our challenge, of how we show everybody that
20     the arts are important to even those who can't
21     sing and can't draw, and yet they give us a
22     strength and an understanding that can't be
1     measured.
2               MR. FELDMAN:  Well, I think that
3     you've hit upon one of our great problems in
4     the agency, and that is that it's very hard to
5     prove that the arts have affected many lives.
6               And so we use examples of those who
7     have succeeded who had a music lesson when they
8     were very young and went on to write a great
9     musical score for a film, and the company made
10     a billion dollars.
11               And we need to use those examples,
12     but there are also those who it affected their
13     lives and their behavior their whole life, and
14     it's hard to measure that.
15               At the same time, we do need
16     examples, we do need statistics.  And the model
17     that I'm talking about is the model that does
18     exactly what we're talking about in the prison,
19     and then also puts in the community later and
20     the aftercare of the prisoner, so that you have
21     everything working.
22               If you do it piecemeal, we're going
1     to always have this problem.
2               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  We're going to
3     have to let the Attorney General get back to
4     her real life, as --
5               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  I think this
6     is part of my real life.
7               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  Thank you.
8     Thank you.
9               ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO:  (Inaudible)
10               CHAIRMAN ALEXANDER:  We are very
11     grateful that you do.
12               Thank you, Madam Attorney General.
13                    (Applause)
14                    (Whereupon, at approximately
15                    11:00 a.m., the 128th Meeting of
16                    the National Council on the
17                    Arts' session with Attorney
18                    General Janet F. Reno was
19                    concluded.)
20                      *  *  *  *  *