10                       FOR UTAH'S FUTURE" 
16    Salt Palace Ballroom 
17    Salt Lake City, Utah 
18    June 30, 1997 
19    10:15 a.m. 
 1    June 30, 1997                           10:15 a.m. 
 3            ORRIN HATCH:  We can begin.  We'll now 
 4    begin our first discussion section focussing on 
 5    state perspectives, and I would first turn to 
 6    Lieutenant Governor Olene Walker to elaborate more 
 7    on the plans Governor Leavitt and she are 
 8    initiating for the state to address our crime 
 9    problems.  Lieutenant Governor Walker, please 
10    describe the ALERT volunteer initiative in greater 
11    detail, if you will, and -- and then and we're just 
12    going to open it up for -- for questions and 
13    comments involved, so we'll turn it to Lieutenant 
14    Governor Walker at this point. 
15            OLENE S. WALKER:  I'm delighted to be here 
16    to be part of this discussion and especially 
17    grateful to Attorney General Reno for her 
18    guidance.  And I, too, look back with fond memories 
19    on our meeting in the Everglades. 
20            The governor is sorry that he had to 
21    leave.  He had a longstanding commitment.  But we 
22    certainly look at partnerships as the essential 
23    part of what we are going to do to solve the crime 
24    problem, and, more importantly, renew our efforts 
25    in crime prevention in the state.  Certainly we 
 1    recognize the partnership is not just with those 
 2    senators seating -- seated around the table, but we 
 3    have to reach out into every community of our 
 4    state, into every county, into every rural remote 
 5    area as well as already talked about urban areas 
 6    where we generate and mobilize the citizens of the 
 7    state of Utah to make it so that they can be 
 8    involved in looking to better ways to handle 
 9    at-risk youth and be a partner in -- with all of us 
10    in preventing crime as well as taking part in the 
11    crisis of crime. 
12            We will focus on those five identified 
13    areas and we will have high school committees 
14    trying to look at those areas and not only support 
15    the state goals but generate goals of their own, so 
16    that their quality of life will maintained -- will 
17    be maintained.  We feel we've had great 
18    advancements in the past few years in numbers of 
19    beds, crime prevention, and many other options. 
20            We recognize the future is before us and we 
21    need a renewed commitment, and that's what ALERT is 
22    all about.  We are excited about the ALERT program 
23    and certainly call on all the citizens to get 
24    involved.  The start will be September 27th at 
25    their local high schools.  But we also recognize 
 1    that we need greater partnerships with the federal 
 2    government and with local government.  And perhaps 
 3    our greatest need right now is the need for 
 4    detention facilities for illegal immigrants. 
 5    Certainly we recognize the need for beds, but we -- 
 6    we want to state that we would like those beds to 
 7    be new brick and mortar.  We are fearful that the 
 8    new beds will come from beds that we are already 
 9    utilizing in partnership with the counties, and 
10    that we feel that we obviously need those beds 
11    here.  And so we would call on them to look for new 
12    brick and mortar beds for the illegal aliens as 
13    well as long-term facilities after they've been -- 
14    been through the adjudicated process.  We certainly 
15    recognize that we're all in this together and 
16    anything that we can do to cooperate and use funds 
17    more wisely will benefit all of us.  We are 
18    committed as a state government to increase the 
19    number of beds.  We are committed to find 
20    additional programs that are needed.  We are 
21    committed, also, to involve all the local 
22    committees in trying to set up organizations to not 
23    only provide ambulances in the bottom of the 
24    valleys, but we are going to put far greater 
25    emphasis on building those fences so that we look 
 1    at at-risk kids earlier and that we get all the 
 2    communities involved in building those fences so 
 3    that in the future the ambulances won't be needed. 
 4            Thank you for being here and thank you for 
 5    sponsoring this crime summit.  We appreciate you, 
 6    Senator Hatch. 
 7            ORRIN HATCH:  Well thank you, Governor 
 8    Walker, and we appreciate that. 
 9            Can I just ask the state panel, any of you, 
10    to respond for a briefing on the state's plan for 
11    correctional expansion.  Anybody could handle 
12    that. 
13            O. LANE McCOTTER:  Senator Hatch, Lane 
14    McCotter with the Department of Corrections.  We 
15    have developed a five-year plan of expansion.  We 
16    are growing at the rate of about 500 beds a year at 
17    their current -- this is projections that we base 
18    these on, are what we've actually experienced over 
19    the past two years.  We are looking at a 
20    combination of things to expand our capacities.  We 
21    have a new facility currently under construction 
22    now down in the Gunnison, Utah area that will 
23    add 192 beds to our facilities within the next six 
24    to eight months.  However, once we go beyond that 
25    we have nothing under construction. 
 1            We are expanding our capability and our 
 2    partnerships with the county sheriffs.  This is a 
 3    partnership I think that is unique probably to the 
 4    entire nation, in that we work so closely together 
 5    with the county sheriffs.  We're contracting now 
 6    with beds in 14 counties, and many of these 
 7    counties are building beds for us to lease from the 
 8    state for state inmates. 
 9            I think one of the things of concern that 
10    we have just heard from the lieutenant governor is 
11    that as these federal people come in and start 
12    leasing beds they may start trying to lease the 
13    same beds that we are already leasing, because the 
14    federal people are -- are able, frankly, to pay 
15    higher lease rates than we are able to pay here in 
16    this state.  So that is a major concern, and -- 
17    that I think we need to be careful of. 
18            But we are looking at these beds.  I think 
19    that we would like to see a federal prison 
20    somewhere in the west under the regional concept of 
21    the 1994 crime bill that would be available to not 
22    only Utah but other western states to use as well. 
23    I don't think there's any doubt that we need a 
24    facility for illegal aliens.  This is an area of a 
25    big concern that's growing not only here in Utah 
 1    but throughout the west as I speak to my 
 2    counterparts on a regular basis.  So that we're 
 3    really looking for opportunities now, and I think 
 4    probably with the private sector as well, to add 
 5    more beds that are available to take care of the 
 6    entire problem. 
 7            OLENE WALKER:  I think we ought to hear 
 8    from Gary Dalton from Youth Corrections to give a 
 9    quick report on what we are doing in -- in the near 
10    future in youth corrections. 
11            ORRIN HATCH:  That would be great.  Gary. 
12            GARY DALTON:  Senator, in the Youth 
13    Corrections arena we do have plans.  They have been 
14    ongoing for some five years.  Our legislature has 
15    attended to those in a timely fashion.  Our plans 
16    are an additional 144 beds of secured care in the 
17    next legislative session.  We will also, however, 
18    be going out of state to contract for beds for -- 
19    as alternatives to secure care for some young 
20    people who can use that kind of attention. 
21            It should be noted that though we continue 
22    to use data that suggests we need many more secure 
23    beds, a number -- a majority of those young people 
24    can be served by alternatives to incarceration. 
25    Strong community programs, strong parental guidance 
 1    programs, and strong out-of-state programs can help 
 2    us serve that.  We would be delighted in having 
 3    additional federal dollars via grants and other 
 4    state monies to allow us to do that.  We're looking 
 5    in the future of contracting for over 100 beds out 
 6    of state for those young people. 
 7            ORRIN HATCH:  Great.  Now, we will hear 
 8    from -- from the private sector of panelists in a 
 9    moment, but let me ask your opinion:  Would -- 
10    would our fellow Utahns support a federal 
11    correctional facility here in Utah?  Let's assume 
12    we could get one, we can get the federal government 
13    to agree to -- to build one here in Utah.  Would -- 
14    could we get community support across the board, 
15    both state and community support? 
16            OLENE WALKER:  Let's call on one of the 
17    legislators to answer that -- 
18            ORRIN HATCH:  Okay. 
19            OLENE WALKER:  -- because they're the 
20    ultimate money people -- 
21            ORRIN HATCH:  Mike or -- 
22            OLENE WALKER:  -- as we all know. 
23            MICHAEL WADDOUPS:  Senator, thank you. 
24            I believe that there is support for federal 
25    participation and perhaps even a federal facility. 
 1    I think perhaps the biggest concern, of course, is 
 2    going to be location.  The new fee situation is a 
 3    concern all over the state.  We've -- we've seen 
 4    that as we've tried to site state facilities.  Some 
 5    of the counties have found the same problem. 
 6    Siting a location is more important to the people 
 7    than -- than having a -- a new facility and knowing 
 8    how to -- to fund it.  Funding is very important. 
 9            We've studied this on the state level many 
10    times and find that the funding situation is almost 
11    impossible.  As the governor indicated, we put over 
12    $100 million into -- into corrections the past year 
13    in building new facilities.  We've also put another 
14    hundred million into operating and working with 
15    facilities.  We're finding that the -- the citizens 
16    of our state are very concerned about the youth, 
17    more than they are about the -- 
18    the -- the violent criminals.  They think that 
19    violent criminals are -- are out there, but as you 
20    look at the statistics that we saw earlier, a lot 
21    of that growth is not in the more violent crimes, 
22    the percentage growth is coming in the less violent 
23    crimes:  the burglaries, the thefts, the car thefts 
24    particularly.  We're having a big problem with 
25    that.  We don't want those types of people in our 
 1    community.  We'd like to do something about them. 
 2            But part of the situation we think is an 
 3    education problem.  We think the governor 
 4    particularly hit it on the head when he talked 
 5    about more foster homes, when he talked about 
 6    teaching our youth to read, helping in that 
 7    situation.  We think those are good steps, 
 8    alternatives.  They are all alternatives to -- to 
 9    incarceration, the electronic monitoring and things 
10    of this nature we are looking at.  Representative 
11    Valentine took some notes on -- on the costs, and 
12    I -- I think we should hear just how that would 
13    impact the state budget, and ideally, for 
14    Representative Valentine to recite some of those 
15    costs. 
16            ORRIN HATCH:  Thanks.  Why don't you -- 
17            JOHN VALENTINE:  Thank you, Senator.  I 
18    appreciate the opportunity of doing that. 
19            We have struggled over the last ten years 
20    in building prisons, building a secure confinement 
21    for our youth.  It cost about 65- to $70,000 a bed 
22    for new construction right now in our present 
23    system.  That means to meet the initiative that has 
24    been announced today by the governor it would take 
25    about $300 million plus for those beds just for the 
 1    construction.  We've been running about $12 million 
 2    a year per 500-bed increase, so we allotted how 
 3    well we've done the last time, and we put 144 beds 
 4    in youth corrections and 120 beds into adult 
 5    corrections.  That's not even close to the type of 
 6    impact that we'd have to make to the type of 
 7    facilities that would be needed to meet this type 
 8    of initiative. 
 9            We are basically building about -- a 
10    capacity in the system of about 500 beds per year. 
11    We are looking at some different type of approaches 
12    for state beds, including some privatization 
13    approaches.  A team of the legislature, some who 
14    are analysts, some who are staff people, are headed 
15    to Texas next week to go look at some privatized 
16    facilities there.  Using the same type of numbers 
17    of the project we have on the books right now for 
18    approximately $27 million would cost around $18 
19    million in the privatized model, but these still 
20    won't be even close enough to handle the federal 
21    problems that we've talked about today, especially 
22    with the INS problems. 
23            We also encourage the federal government 
24    to -- to look at a siting here or at least 
25    someplace close in the west of a federal 
 1    penitentiary.  It looks like to us that the siting 
 2    could be done at a place in our rural area that has 
 3    the need for economic development, like we did in 
 4    Gunnison when we placed the state facility in 
 5    Gunnison and had support of the community and still 
 6    have support of it.  I think that siting, if you 
 7    will work with us as locals, could be done in such 
 8    a way that we could make it a partnership in the 
 9    true sense. 
10            One final comment on -- on costs:  The 800 
11    megahertz conversion which is being, in effect, 
12    pushed on to us by the FCC is having tremendous 
13    costs, where we're going to have to retool every 
14    police car, every repeater, every central control 
15    station.  That area is getting to be very, very 
16    costly, and we're only now getting a handle on what 
17    type of costs we are looking at there.  So we -- we 
18    ought to be -- continue to be sensitive as you push 
19    things from the federal government to the states to 
20    look at the overall costs. 
21            And we appreciate the opportunity of having 
22    some input in the summit. 
23            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you.  Before I turn 
24    to -- turn to Attorney Janet Reno, I'd like to 
25    introduce Director Louis Freeh the director of the 
 1    FBI, who is a great director and -- and does a 
 2    terrific job.  He flew in this morning and will be 
 3    flying back with the other officials this 
 4    afternoon, so you can imagine what a tough day he's 
 5    had.  We're happy to have you here, Louis. 
 6            LOUIS FREEH:  Thank you, Senator. 
 7            OLENE WALKER:  Could I just give a quick 
 8    summary?  I think Utahns' overall are very 
 9    concerned about their quality of life and high -- a 
10    high priority is safety:  safety on the streets, 
11    safety in the home, safety in the community.  We 
12    have always found the citizens of Utah very 
13    supportive when we go to them with a -- a program 
14    that makes sense and has some practical aspects in 
15    their own communities in this state.  I think you'd 
16    find Utahns very willing to work with the federal 
17    government.  We would appreciate an opportunity to 
18    discuss location and those types of issues, and 
19    certainly I think you'll find the citizens of Utah 
20    rising to the occasion. 
21            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, let me turn to Janet 
22    Reno who -- who would like to comment. 
23            JANET RENO:  First of all, Senator, one of 
24    the things that I look forward to working with you 
25    on is this whole issue with respect to the -- to 
 1    the costs that are going to incurred by local law 
 2    enforcement.  I don't think that many people in 
 3    Washington have begun to understand the dimension 
 4    of that, and I think that that's something that 
 5    perhaps we might put together a small group with 
 6    you and with Senator Bennett because I think it 
 7    will -- it -- it is a significant issue. 
 8            Secondly, I just -- I wonder, what are you 
 9    all doing considering the number of people who are 
10    drug involved that come into the system?  What are 
11    you doing in terms of drug treatment and job 
12    training while young offenders are in -- are -- 18 
13    to 21-year-olds are incarcerated? 
14            GARY DALTON:  Let me respond to that from a 
15    juvenile side, if I could, please, and then maybe 
16    Lane could respond. 
17            In Utah there is a cut-off.  You may have 
18    young people incarcerated up to the age of 21 if 
19    they're adjudicated before their 18th birthdate. 
20    For the most part there are vocational programs. 
21    There are -- they're not highly tuned to actually 
22    hands-on vocational skills.  They may learn from a 
23    computer, they may learn all of the job resume kind 
24    of skills, how to get a job, but we are woefully 
25    short in our ability to bring actual programs into 
 1    the facilities.  That is something that we ought to 
 2    address and do a better job of. 
 3            We have attempted to be doing mentoring in 
 4    a large -- much larger scale, where the mentors and 
 5    mentees deal around vocational aspects.  We're 
 6    doing a much better job of that, and it's making a 
 7    considerable difference on young people who are 
 8    leaving our facilities. 
 9            There is a group, then, that is in our 
10    serious youth offender population that would leave 
11    juvenile corrections and go into the adult system. 
12    I think one of the -- that's been a very strong 
13    point for Utah to have, but also it's been one of 
14    the areas in which Lane and the Department of 
15    Corrections is able to bring specific programs to 
16    them.  They are incarcerated along with adult 
17    population.  They then have available to them any 
18    of the opportunities available to Utah correctional 
19    industries or other programs of vocational nature 
20    in the adult system, but nothing targeted to 
21    juveniles or young offenders specifically. 
22            LESLIE LEWIS:  I might also respond that in 
23    the court what we're seeing is that the poustie of 
24    resources that has been directed toward drug 
25    treatments is having a tremendous impact.  Now, in 
 1    the courts we've attempted to do what we can to do 
 2    to deal with this, and following up on what Senator 
 3    Hatch said, and you, Attorney General Reno, said, 
 4    we have tried to be creative and to be aggressive 
 5    in handling this problem. 
 6            One of at things that my colleagues and I 
 7    did a few months ago is we set up a special session 
 8    of courts that lasted two full days into the night, 
 9    and we brought in some of our district attorneys, 
10    defense attorneys, law enforcement, and court 
11    staff, and we processed 500 illegal aliens from 
12    beginning to end.  People from the INS were 
13    available and there were planes and they were 
14    immediately deported.  This obviously emptied the 
15    jails and was a creative solution that I believe 
16    worked effectively.  That sort of thing is not done 
17    enough. 
18            We're also utilizing a drug court in both 
19    our juvenile court and also in the Third District 
20    Court that we have found to be extremely helpful 
21    for those individuals who are not sellers of drugs 
22    but, rather, the users.  What we find is that there 
23    is no corollary availability of treatment 
24    resources.  We have essentially one excellent 
25    viable treatment program in Salt Lake County, and 
 1    that's Odyssey House.  If you cannot get someone in 
 2    Odyssey House there really isn't anything 
 3    available.  And this is a concern that I am very 
 4    happy you brought to the forefront. 
 5            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you, Judge Lewis. 
 6    Janet Reno. 
 7            JANET RENO:  What might be helpful, 
 8    Senator, is perhaps she, you, and the courts and 
 9    INS can work together and -- and we can look at how 
10    we might correlate things so we can get people out 
11    on a more rapid basis.  So I'll follow up on that. 
12            And the only reason I raise the issue of 
13    treatment:  We would really like to work with you 
14    in terms of technical assistance.  We're doing some 
15    work in terms of drug testing treatment, the whole 
16    drug court program, and anything that we might do 
17    in terms of technical assistance, and then perhaps 
18    building on that.  We would be grateful for the 
19    opportunity. 
20            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, General Reno, as you 
21    know, in the -- when we go back I've scheduled a 
22    markup on the -- on the juvenile justice, on 
23    the 10th of July.  It's going to be a whingdinger 
24    of a markup because there's a wide disparity of -- 
25    of beliefs and approaches between Democrats and 
 1    Republicans on the Judiciary Committee in the 
 2    Senate, and, of course, the House Juvenile Justice 
 3    Bill has caused, thanks to a lot of people. 
 4            And one of the big issues is -- is 
 5    prevention and rehabilitation-type monies.  And we 
 6    do have a lot of money in the system, but if all we 
 7    have in Salt Lake City is the Odyssey House, that's 
 8    great, but that's not enough.  I think that Project 
 9    ALERT might very well try and include -- you know, 
10    we're finding Boys & Girls clubs and similar 
11    organizations like that have a tremendous impact, 
12    but what General Reno is concerned about is job 
13    training as well and whether we can get these kids 
14    to work and to be productive and to feel good about 
15    themselves and to have the self-confidence that 
16    comes from being able to -- to, you know, being 
17    able to work and support themselves.  So we need a 
18    community response to that as well, but we also 
19    need these -- to use these federal funds a little 
20    bit better than we are using them. 
21            Let me ask Craig this question again: 
22    Governor Leavitt mentioned the need for more law 
23    enforcement.  Could you tell us a little bit about 
24    the state's plan for the expansion of law 
25    enforcement in this area. 
 1            CRAIG DEARDEN:  Well -- 
 2            ORRIN HATCH:  Okay. 
 3            CRAIG DEARDEN:  -- currently we're -- we're 
 4    approaching the legislature right now by next year 
 5    to add a highway patrolman to the police force 
 6    here.  Also, it was mentioned by the Mayor that 
 7    we've received, oh, probably -- I think she 
 8    mentioned 400, but I don't know -- a lot of 
 9    officers on the COPS through COPS grants.  We are 
10    continuing to do that.  In fact, I just saw Sheriff 
11    Kennard signing a grant at the break for a -- a 
12    request for other officers.  I believe that he's 
13    probably received 60.  Salt Lake City has probably 
14    received that amount, too, and so we are making 
15    good progress that way. 
16            One of the problems that kind of comes 
17    along with the number of officers is the other 
18    areas that all the arrests affect.  With -- a lot 
19    of times what happens is we put more officers on 
20    the street but we don't include jail space and 
21    other court people to take care of the increase in 
22    the arrests and so forth.  But as far as putting 
23    policemen on the street, we are working through the 
24    state, and I know that the counties and local 
25    agencies are all working to increase their forces, 
 1    and many agencies have taken advantage of the COPS 
 2    program to put more officers on the street. 
 3            ORRIN HATCH:  Great.  Let me encourage 
 4    others to comment here around the tables and offer 
 5    suggestions in what the state is doing and what it 
 6    can do.  If you want to be recognized, just raise 
 7    your hand and I'll try and recognize you. 
 8            OLENE WALKER:  Could -- why don't we have 
 9    Colonel Greenwood comment on it, because highway 
10    problems -- and tying back to drugs.  We recognize 
11    that is a huge problem, and we certainly want to 
12    call on the private sector and the community to 
13    join in in helping us solve it.  But I -- 
14            ORRIN HATCH:  That would be great. 
15            OLENE WALKER:  -- also recognize in 
16    manpower tied in with drugs, that the highway 
17    patrol has a significant role. 
18            RICHARD GREENWOOD:  Well, I appreciate 
19    that.  I don't know if this is on, Senator.  Maybe 
20    I'll just speak in that -- 
21            ORRIN HATCH:  Just -- just get a little bit 
22    closer to it.  It's on, but -- 
23            RICHARD GREENWOOD:  Well, perhaps I thought 
24    I could speak in that demanding voice that I had 
25    gotten over the years in using on the highway 
 1    patrol whenever I stopped those speeders that -- 
 2    traveling down Highway 15. 
 3            However, as Commission Dearden has 
 4    mentioned, since 1989 the Utah Highway Patrol has 
 5    been approaching the legislature in requesting 100 
 6    new troopers on our streets here in the state of 
 7    Utah.  We feel we're justified and it's justifiable 
 8    to have 100 additional troopers.  These troopers 
 9    play a role in -- in crimefighting.  They write -- 
10    they do more than just write tickets.  As a matter 
11    of fact, I'd like to share with this committee last 
12    year we took off the street in U.S. currency and 
13    drugs over $10 million here in the state of Utah. 
14    We feel that Utah Highway Patrol takes off more 
15    drugs and criminals than most law enforcement 
16    agencies in the state combined, even with the small 
17    staff that we do have. 
18            Over the -- as I mentioned, over the past 
19    number of years since 1898 we have been asking 
20    for 100 additional state troopers.  During that 
21    time period each year we've received anywhere from 
22    three to six additional troopers.  We have noticed 
23    that the -- not necessarily the violent crimes such 
24    as homicides have not been increasing alarmingly; 
25    however, the auto thefts and burglaries. 
 1            When people steal cars they're out on the 
 2    freeways.  When we don't have troopers out on the 
 3    freeways these criminals continue to drive down the 
 4    street to perform the -- or to commit drive-by 
 5    shootings.  And that's one of the things that that 
 6    Utah Highway Patrol has been doing, Senator, is 
 7    approaching the legislature each year asking for 
 8    that additional manpower.  And we have been 
 9    fortunate, however, that the legislature has been 
10    listening to us, but not to the degree or to the 
11    level that we would feel to be able to be adequate 
12    for the patrol. 
13            ORRIN HATCH:  And, Richard, identify 
14    yourself for the audience. 
15            Whenever I call on anybody, just please 
16    give your name and identify your position so that 
17    everybody in the room will understand. 
18            RICHARD GREENWOOD:  My name is Richard 
19    Greenwood, superintendent of the Utah Highway 
20    Patrol. 
21            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you. 
22            Yes, Louie. 
23            LOUIE TONG:  Lou Tong, office of Asian 
24    Affairs for the state of Utah. 
25            This is a comment that the governor 
 1    mentioned earlier in his talk about the GIFT 
 2    program, the Governor's Initiative on Families 
 3    Today.  I want to tell you about a program we had 
 4    in Ogden City working very closely with the Ogden 
 5    City Police Department.  The program there was to 
 6    control the gangs in a -- a specific ethnic group. 
 7    After the governor's program was presented we had 
 8    the audience there of over a hundred people from 
 9    this ethnic group, of which two or three of the 
10    community leaders stood up and said, "We know all 
11    of our youth, and we are not going to have our 
12    youth committing these crimes."  Now, that was the 
13    very powerful statement coming from a community who 
14    is run by volunteers and by volunteers from the 
15    Ogden Police Department. 
16            And for one year that particular ethnic 
17    group had no crimes recorded in Ogden.  We have a 
18    very strong and good working relation with Chief 
19    Ortega from the Salt Lake City Police Department. 
20    So the GIFT program is a program from the 
21    governor's office which has had strong, strong 
22    support from Lieutenant Governor Walker.  She 
23    attended most of those conferences.  But there's a 
24    connection there.  The GIFT program is very small. 
25    It certainly warrants more attention.  Thank you. 
 1            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you.  Let's start 
 2    with Reverend France Davis of the Calvary Baptist 
 3    Church, and then I'll come back to Lane McCotter. 
 4            FRANCE DAVIS:  I'd -- I'd like to ask some 
 5    of my representatives what we can do to get you to 
 6    list one of the goals, seven or 11 or whatever the 
 7    numbers are, something that will help us to keep 
 8    people from getting into the system in the first 
 9    place:  educational systems, something about 
10    rehabilitation or -- I don't know what -- what 
11    we've got to do, but it seems that's the glaring 
12    missing part of our discussing here today. 
13            ANDREW VALDEZ:  Senator, can I respond to 
14    that? 
15            ORRIN HATCH:  Sure.  Judge Valdez. 
16            ANDREW VALDEZ:  From the juvenile court. 
17            ORRIN HATCH:  You bet.  From the juvenile 
18    court, Judge -- Judge Valdez. 
19            ANDREW VALDEZ:  I think a different 
20    perspective is most of the gang kids, most of the 
21    people who are incarcerated, most of the adult 
22    criminals are having children.  Two-thirds of my 
23    cases and two-thirds of most judges in -- in the 
24    Third District Court are dealing with kids and 
25    adults as parents.  These children have never 
 1    committed crimes.  These kids are abused, 
 2    neglected, and dependent children, everything from 
 3    crack babies to 16-, 17-year-old homeless 
 4    teenagers.  Most of the problems within these home 
 5    situations are life-style related problems:  drugs, 
 6    alcohol, domestic violence.  Two-thirds of our time 
 7    is dealing with these kids at this point.  Most of 
 8    these kids, as I indicated, come from these types 
 9    of environments, and, of course, today's dependent 
10    kid is tomorrow's delinquent kid. 
11            To answer Reverend Davis' question what are 
12    we doing, what we're trying to do, hopefully, is to 
13    build children and hopefully fix adults on the 
14    way.  But it's very difficult to change a family 
15    culture in one generation.  Most of these 
16    dysfunctions or these problems within the homes run 
17    generations.  The children of the people who have 
18    been prosecuted in the adult systems for years and 
19    years and years, they're coming into the juvenile 
20    court system as neglected and dependent children. 
21    And that's the challenge for this community, is 
22    what are we going to do with these children, which 
23    two-thirds of our time, all the judges -- there's 
24    eight of us -- we spend most of our time dealing 
25    with these kids. 
 1            And I think nationally -- there's 40 
 2    million children nationwide that are now seven 
 3    years old or ten years old who will reach 
 4    adolescent and teenage years within the next 
 5    decade.  And they're predicting some horrible 
 6    things for these kids, and largely because these 
 7    kids, as reflected in my courtroom on a day-to-day 
 8    basis, are neglected, abused, and dependent 
 9    children. 
10            I was in my chambers last night until 11:00 
11    preparing for today's calendar, 30 cases today. 
12    And out of those 30 cases 80 percent of those cases 
13    were dealing with neglected and abused kids.  They 
14    weren't ethnic, they weren't illegal aliens.  It 
15    crosses all racial and social lines, all barriers, 
16    all boundaries.  These kids are neglected, abused, 
17    and I think only ten percent of the kids I dealt 
18    with last night until 11:00 preparing for today's 
19    calendar -- of course, I'm not there, I have 
20    another judge covering -- 10 percent of those kids 
21    were delinquent kids.  The rest were abused and 
22    neglected kids. 
23            That's the perspective.  If you don't get 
24    to these kids early as dependent children, then 
25    they're tomorrow's delinquent kids, and we're going 
 1    to continue this discussion for more beds, more 
 2    incarceration, more law enforcement, and -- and 
 3    more summits such as this. 
 4            ORRIN HATCH:  Now, that's very impressive. 
 5    Thank you, Judge. 
 6            FRANCE DAVIS:  Can I -- can I just add: 
 7    One of things that we are doing -- (applause) 
 8            ORRIN HATCH:  Perhaps before I -- before I 
 9    get back to you, let me just mention to you on 
10    Page 47 and 48 of the -- of the Coming Together for 
11    Utah's Future that we put out here today, that we 
12    mention these three things, and these are three 
13    that we ought to really do everything we can. 
14            The "Construction of Additional Boys & 
15    Girls Clubs," we did -- we did pass legislation 
16    authorizing $100 million in funds for the 
17    establishment of new Boys & Girls clubs across the 
18    nation.  As you know, most of the money comes from 
19    the local communities, so it's just seed money from 
20    the federal government.  That's a lot of seed money 
21    compared with the past, and we passed into 
22    legislation.  That we'll help to establish these 
23    clubs. 
24            Number two, "Adoption of a 'Zero Tolerance' 
25    policy for 'Quality of Life' Crimes," I think you 
 1    might want to read that. 
 2            And "Religious-based Drug Treatment and 
 3    Prevention Programs," sooner or later we're going 
 4    to have to -- we're going to have get by this 
 5    problem of the so-called separation of church 
 6    and -- church and state, because we're not using 
 7    our religious institutions as much as we should to 
 8    make a dent in these problems.  We're not using our 
 9    government institutions as much as -- as we can, 
10    either. 
11            And I might add that the -- the Hatch Youth 
12    Violence Bill provides $500 million a year in block 
13    grants to the states and to local governments. 
14    Now, this could bring nearly $4 million a year to 
15    Utah.  40 percent of those funds would be used for 
16    prevention.  We may need more.  We may need to -- 
17    General Reno, Director Freeh, others, we may -- may 
18    need to have better coordination of federal funds 
19    and states funds and better help from the federal 
20    government in some of these areas. 
21            But you're right, if we -- and -- and 
22    you're right.  If we don't -- if we don't do 
23    something about these kids now, that we're just 
24    going to be going to building more prisons and more 
25    beds without really good results. 
 1            But let's get back to Reverend Davis for a 
 2    minute, and then I've got to go to Lane McCotter. 
 3            FRANCE DAVIS:  If -- if I can, Senator, 
 4    just -- 
 5            ORRIN HATCH:  Lane, before I get to you I'm 
 6    going to go to Lorena because it's on this subject 
 7    real quick. 
 8            FRANCE DAVIS:  Thank you, Senator. 
 9            ORRIN HATCH:  And Elder Morrison will be 
10    before I get to Lane McCotter. 
11            FRANCE DAVIS:  Thank you, Senator. 
12            If I can say just a -- a brief statement: 
13    It seems to me that all of the research is 
14    indicating that reading has a clear connection 
15    between people who are committing crimes, and one 
16    of the things that we are doing is we are starting 
17    to teach kids on a computerized reading program to 
18    read as early as two and a half, three years old. 
19            ORRIN HATCH:  That's great. 
20            FRANCE DAVIS:  And -- and our goal is to 
21    say that by taking this early approach we can keep 
22    some of these kids and getting involved in the 
23    system and perhaps also help some of these adults 
24    to keep from going back into the system.  Thanks. 
25            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you.  Reverend Davis 
 1    really does put his money where his mouth is.  He 
 2    really is working in that community and doing an 
 3    awful lot of good. 
 4            (Applause.) 
 5            Lorena Riffo.  Please tell them what you 
 6    do, Lorena, and -- 
 7            LORENA RIFFO:  Yes.  I'm with the state 
 8    office of Hispanic Affairs.  And I'm happy to be 
 9    here and also happy to have an administration -- 
10    for everything I heard Governor Leavitt and the 
11    Lieutenant Governor that we're talking about 
12    prevention, we're talking about coming together as 
13    a society and doing something about it when it 
14    comes to crime. 
15            In terms of my office, my responsibilities, 
16    I think what's critical is that it is a point of 
17    contact for the Spanish community in the state of 
18    Utah.  And I'm going to share with you some 
19    examples that I -- from phone calls that I received 
20    regarding this issue in terms of -- there was an 
21    operation held I believe in April in southern Utah 
22    where we were bringing in basically undocumented 
23    immigrants coming into the United States, and some 
24    of them were criminal because they were bringing 
25    in, indeed, some drugs.  At the same time my office 
 1    did receive phone calls from U.S.-born Hispanics 
 2    who were afraid to go out -- out on the street 
 3    because they were afraid they were going to be 
 4    profiled.  That's something that is real for the 
 5    Hispanic community.  That's something that a lot of 
 6    people have demonstrated fear that this is going to 
 7    be depicted in a negative fashion upon the Hispanic 
 8    community. 
 9            Furthermore, in terms of talking about 
10    bringing more enforcement agents, we believe this 
11    is needed, we need more enforcement agents when it 
12    comes to INS.  I know how busy that office is.  I 
13    know how Merrill Rogers, the officer in charge, 
14    works really hard to keep up the load -- the 
15    workload in that office.  However, at the same 
16    token, we do have some concerns that our net -- 
17    that our individuals who are legally, or taxpayers, 
18    their paperwork is not being processed because 
19    unfortunately the INS office here doesn't have the 
20    manpower to process their applications.  And I just 
21    want to mention to you that as we talk about 
22    enforcement agents and bringing them in -- and we 
23    have the commissioner of the INS here -- we also 
24    need to remember the legal residents who are paying 
25    taxes and who want to be part of this great country 
 1    and who are part of this wonderful country.  And I 
 2    know that Merrill is doing everything he can to 
 3    make it happen; however, we need that help. 
 4            We talked about partnerships.  I believe we 
 5    can have the partnerships needed among -- we're all 
 6    Utah citizens, we're all citizens of this great 
 7    country.  I also think that looking at partnership 
 8    and addressing the issue of undocumented immigrants 
 9    coming to the United States, we need to talk about 
10    having the governments -- the foreign governments 
11    who are needed to probably be around this table.  I 
12    know that the Constable of Mexico pulled me aside 
13    earlier and said that she would have liked to have 
14    been here, because she spoke this morning with the 
15    ambassador of Mexico and they want to be part of 
16    the solutions.  So I suggest in the future we have 
17    them as part of the solution. 
18            And we are here to help you to solve this 
19    problem.  We love and care about this -- this 
20    state, and I am glad that I'm part of an 
21    administration that gives a voice to the Hispanic 
22    community of the state of Utah as well as to the 
23    other ethnic citizens. 
24            But if we look -- and there is one thing, 
25    one recommendation on Page 45, and that talks about 
 1    cross-deputization, which is a good idea to have in 
 2    case -- since we don't have enough INS agents.  The 
 3    one thing that I will bring to the table is that it 
 4    is not done by profiling people.  That is a fear 
 5    that is out there in the Hispanic community.  But 
 6    if you're Hispanic, sound foreign like myself, 
 7    besides telling you that I'm a naturalized citizen 
 8    there's nothing I can show you to prove it. 
 9            We need to make sure that those individuals 
10    that are around this table could bring forth that 
11    information. 
12            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you, Lorena.  You 
13    know, we have to deal with this -- this aspect of 
14    the crime problem realistically and fairly.  I'm 
15    the chairman of the Republican Senatorial task 
16    force in the -- the Senate, and I just want to 
17    state that the vast majority of immigrants in Utah 
18    are productive and law-abiding members of our 
19    communities and of our neighborhoods, and to 
20    believe otherwise would allow prejudice to 
21    continue.  And I think you make a very good case 
22    and you stand up very well with pride. 
23            LORENA RIFFO:  Thank you, Senator, for the 
24    time, and thank you for conducting this summit. 
25    (Applause.) 
 1            ORRIN HATCH:  In fact, the Hispanic people 
 2    have helped to build this country just as much as 
 3    anybody else. 
 4            And we'll turn to Elder Morrison of the 
 5    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. 
 6            ALEXANDER MORRISON:  Mr. Chairman, I would 
 7    like to embroider a little on the remarks 
 8    introduced by Judge Valdez.  I happened to watch 
 9    the other day a replay of one of the famous 
10    victories of Mohammud Ali the heavyweight boxer. 
11    He not have to bite off his opponent's ear to win. 
12            ORRIN HATCH:  He just knocked his ears off, 
13    that's all. 
14            ALEXANDER MORRISON:  One of the reasons Ali 
15    was such a great fighter was because he could hit 
16    very hard with both hands.  And in our fight 
17    against crime we need a one-two punch.  In the 
18    short-term we clearly need much more aggressive law 
19    enforcement, and I thought that the remarks given 
20    so eloquently and eloquently by Mayor Corradini 
21    this morning indicated in good detail the kinds of 
22    initiatives we require -- 
23            ORRIN HATCH:  Elder, could I interrupt 
24    you just for a second? 
25            ALEXANDER MORRISON:  -- in this important 
 1    area. 
 2            ORRIN HATCH:  Could I interrupt you just 
 3    for a second on that?  Since you've been talking 
 4    about my good friend Ali, just for everyone 
 5    here, I'd like you all to know that on Saturday 
 6    August 23rd as part of our Utah sesquicentennial 
 7    we're having a Utah tribute to Mohammud Ali who's 
 8    coming for Utah just for that -- well, for that 
 9    purpose plus the charitable golf tournament that I 
10    have.  So I just wanted -- I thought it would be an 
11    opportune time to get a plug in for that.  It will 
12    be at the Capitol Theater, won't it?  And we're -- 
13    we're hoping that all of you will consider coming. 
14    I think you'll enjoy that.  Sorry to interrupt you. 
15            ALEXANDER MORRISON:  Let me return.  We 
16    need not only the -- the right hand of law 
17    enforcement, but we must also have the left hand of 
18    the patient perseverance of crime prevention.  And 
19    that starts in the family and in the home.  Indeed, 
20    the best single indicator of whether a young man 
21    will grow up to be a criminal is not his race or 
22    his economic status but whether he has a father who 
23    lives with his mother and is married to her. 
24            The seeds of criminal behavior are sewn in 
25    childhood, and the greatest thing that we can do to 
 1    prevent crime is to strengthen our families and to 
 2    strengthen our communities.  The values which 
 3    children need to ensure and they grow up to be 
 4    honest and law-abiding citizens are taught 
 5    primarily by their parents.  And we need to do all 
 6    that we can to strengthen the hands of parents and 
 7    strengthen families, and those efforts will be 
 8    assisted by churches and schools and by community 
 9    agencies. 
10            But I do hope that we leave here today with 
11    a better understanding as of the need to combine 
12    both the potent requirements for more aggressive 
13    law enforcement, but also the long-term quiet 
14    perseverance of crime prevention.  Otherwise, we 
15    will think that the way to solve the problem is to 
16    build more jails.  There is a lot more to it than 
17    that. 
18            Thank you very much. 
19            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you.  Lane McCotter. 
20    Let me go to Lane McCotter, who I've been trying to 
21    get to. 
22            And then let me also say we have not heard 
23    from many of our local officials and -- concerning 
24    the state perspective, and if you care -- if any of 
25    you care to comment we'd like to.  And I notice our 
 1    attorney general would like to comment, too.  So 
 2    why don't I go to Lane McCotter, then to the 
 3    attorney general, and then Sam Dawson would like 
 4    to -- you know, we have to go to Sam. 
 5            LANE McCOTTER:  Thank you, Senator Hatch. 
 6    Lane McCotter with the Department of Corrections. 
 7            I really wanted to just respond a little 
 8    more to General Reno's request or her question on 
 9    the adult correctional side of the house, as far as 
10    drug treatment and the programs that we have 
11    available here in Utah and what we're trying to do 
12    to address this tremendous problem. 
13            Just for your information, we have right 
14    now -- about 16.5 percent of our total incarcerated 
15    population here in the state of Utah are there for 
16    pure drug offenses:  use, possession, and mostly 
17    sale of drugs. 
18            ORRIN HATCH:  What percentage was that, 
19    what percentage? 
20            LANE McCOTTER:  16.5 percent of all those 
21    incarcerated. 
22            But I think the telling statistic is at 
23    least 80 percent -- and I think, personally, that's 
24    a probably low figure -- that 80 percent of all 
25    those incarcerated in our prisons here in Utah 
 1    are -- in some way have drug and alcohol abuse 
 2    problems.  In other words, they might be there for 
 3    robbery, burglary, or whatever it might be, but 
 4    they have a long history of drug and alcohol abuse 
 5    in their histories.  And so, therefore, we look 
 6    at 80 percent of our population as within our 
 7    incarcerated system of needing some form of drug 
 8    and alcohol abuse treatment during incarceration -- 
 9    and even after care I think is very critical 
10    components of that once they are released from 
11    prison on parole. 
12            We are spending here in Utah a little 
13    over 13 and a half million dollars out of our 
14    budget annually on drug and other types of 
15    treatment programs, not just drug treatment.  But 
16    in it's hard to separate treatment because no 
17    matter what we're treating there's probably some 
18    kind of a drug problem involved with those people 
19    that we're trying to treat.  We have therapeutic 
20    communities, drug counselors, etc. throughout our 
21    system.  We are not able to treat, with the budget 
22    that we currently have and provide the treatment 
23    that we think we probably ought to be providing, 
24    probably 50 percent of those that need that 
25    treatment.  We're a long way from where we need to 
 1    be to begin to provide all the treatment that we 
 2    probably feel is necessary for drug and alcohol 
 3    abusers as well as all the others incarcerated that 
 4    need treatment.  So, therefore, we end up with 
 5    waiting lists and long lines in our prison systems, 
 6    and we try to work that so that when they're 
 7    receiving adult probates through the Board of 
 8    Pardons that we can then get them into some kind of 
 9    treatment and hopefully some kind of after-care 
10    program while they're on parole, because we think 
11    that's a very critical component to keeping that 
12    individual from recidivating back into the prison 
13    system. 
14            I would just like to finalize my final 
15    comment to thank General Reno for what the 
16    Department of Justice is doing in the way of grants 
17    to help us in this arena.  This year the State of 
18    Utah is receiving around $162,000 for a substance 
19    abuse treatment from the federal government, of 
20    which about 120,000 of that is going into the 
21    prison system to help us hire treatment personnel 
22    to deal with this -- the magnitude of particular 
23    problem. 
24            And recently I was asked and -- and went to 
25    Washington just a couple weeks ago.  We met with 
 1    members of your staff dealing with the truth and 
 2    sentencing grants for the future that are tied also 
 3    to drug testing.  And that's an area that we're 
 4    very deficient in, and as far as funding for, and 
 5    we're hoping that we'll get some help in that arena 
 6    to be able to add more drug testing to our 
 7    component to make it a better system. 
 8            ORRIN HATCH:  Thanks. 
 9            General Graham and then we're going to go 
10    to Sam Dawson and then to Ruben Ortega.  And we're 
11    going to have to be as short as we can in our 
12    comments because we're running out of time. 
13            JAN GRAHAM:  Senator Hatch, thank you so 
14    much for making this possible.  I think everyone in 
15    the room has a renewed hope today that we can solve 
16    our problems in the state of Utah.  I also want to 
17    acknowledge General Reno as the other attorney 
18    general in the room named Janet.  I'm very 
19    appreciative of her work and I want to say there is 
20    not a state attorney general in our nation who has 
21    not applauded your efforts and your caring for what 
22    we do, so thank you for that. 
23            My only comment on behalf of the Attorney 
24    General's Office is that we were doing a couple of 
25    things in our state very well and I want that to be 
 1    noted.  We have in our state probably the strongest 
 2    and toughest domestic violence and child abuse laws 
 3    in our country, and I'm very proud of what our 
 4    state has done in that area.  Secondly, we have 
 5    very strong, very proactive law enforcement that, 
 6    quote, "gets it."  That has helped us in many of 
 7    our battles, and I would like to note that we 
 8    appreciate increasing sensitivity on the part of 
 9    the state judiciary about the realities of law 
10    enforcement, particularly in the Fourth Amendment 
11    area, but I do want to note that. 
12            Finally, to second what Elder Morrison so 
13    eloquently stated, there is no kindergarten teacher 
14    in this state who cannot identify for you every 
15    five-year-old in the room will be before Judge 
16    Valdez in the next eight to 15 years.  That means 
17    we know the risk factors, we know who they are, and 
18    we know who needs the help.  And I just can't say 
19    how strongly I feel that -- about the issue of 
20    violence and abuse within the family and at home. 
21    The most common victims of crime in our state and 
22    any state in the nation are those who are victims 
23    of crime, abuse, and violence in their own homes. 
24    It is there and very much important in substance 
25    abuse, teen pregnancy, and all the problems we've 
 1    been talking about today.  And we can do something 
 2    about it by simply having an honest discussion. 
 3            Everywhere let's give ourselves the 
 4    permission to talk about this most secret but most 
 5    terrible crime.  Let's talk about it in church, 
 6    let's talk about it in this meeting today, let's 
 7    talk about it in our schools.  That honest 
 8    discussion is what will lead to a solution to the 
 9    problem. 
10            Thank you. 
11            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you.  (Applause) 
12            We're -- we're -- we're very honored to 
13    have Judge Lewis and Judge Valdez with us today, 
14    and for them to take this time means a lot 
15    to -- to me personally and I'm sure to all of us. 
16            We'll now turn to Chief Dawson, and then 
17    we'll go to Chief Ortega. 
18            SAM DAWSON:  Thank you, Senator.  I'm the 
19    police chief of Sandy City.  I'm here representing 
20    the Utah chiefs today. 
21            I would like to comment specifically on 
22    what -- what Chief Valdez said about that ten 
23    percent.  We know that community policing works. 
24    We also know we don't have enough people to do it. 
25    It's a spin-off of a problem -- problem-oriented 
 1    policing.  When we get in and work with the 
 2    families, work with the schools, work with our 
 3    communities, we have our mobile -- our neighborhood 
 4    watches, our mobile watches, they really, really 
 5    work.  The problem is, and what is so frustrating 
 6    about -- on behalf of all of those officers that 
 7    are out there making these arrests day in and day 
 8    out, is we are arresting them, we're convicting 
 9    them, we can't incarcerate them. 
10            That ten percent that Judge Valdez talks 
11    about that are the -- the developing animals that 
12    are doing the violence crime that have moved beyond 
13    troubled kids to where they're taking lives, 
14    they're raping, they're pillaging, they need to be 
15    taken off the street.  As long as our officers have 
16    to repeatedly rearrest the same people and we 
17    cannot get them off the street, we are not going to 
18    be able to continue to do the problem-oriented 
19    policing, the community policing that we need to do 
20    to -- to solve the car burglaries, the home 
21    burglaries, and those kinds of things. 
22            We have to support the DARE program, we 
23    have to stay into those types of youth-oriented 
24    programs.  We have to do exactly what Elder 
25    Morrison said.  We have to overcome the apathy and 
 1    the lack of information that our families are 
 2    dealing with in our own community. 
 3            There is a great deal of denial in Utah 
 4    about what's going on in our own families.  We have 
 5    to overcome that.  We do that with education. 
 6    Attorney General Graham facilitated a tape "Not My 
 7    Kid," about gangs.  It's excellent but it's not 
 8    getting out there.  We don't have the people to get 
 9    the information out.  We don't have the officers to 
10    work with them.  But, critically, we have to be 
11    able to lock them up somewhere. 
12            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you, Chief. 
13            Chief Ortega, and we'll -- 
14            RUBEN ORTEGA:  Thank you, Senator.  I -- I 
15    can't remember in the last 20 years I've been in 
16    law enforcement where I have been so energized by 
17    what I've heard here this morning.  I am so excited 
18    about what finally is happening here, and I'm 
19    tempted at lunchtime to call Elway and tell him, 
20    "Forget about me." 
21            Three things -- three things in my mind 
22    will have to occur in this state for us to be 
23    effective in this crime issue that we're trying so 
24    desperately to prevent from escalating any more 
25    than it is today.  One of them happened already 
 1    this morning that has been so frustrated to me 
 2    since I've been here the last four and a half 
 3    years, and that first thing that happened today is 
 4    that we have successfully removed this iron curtain 
 5    of denial that has been here in this state about 
 6    crime in this state.  It has been so hard to have 
 7    people recognize the path that we were heading in 
 8    terms of crime in this state, and I was so 
 9    gratified to have you conduct this summit because 
10    that helped lift the curtain.  But more than that, 
11    it was what -- to hear the governor says that "We 
12    have a crime problem in this state and, by gosh, 
13    we're going to do something about it."  That to me 
14    was the first step if we were going to be 
15    successful in dealing with this crime issue. 
16            The second is -- we have a great beginning, 
17    and the second part of it is we have to deal with 
18    the immediate crisis at hand.  And it was so 
19    encouraging to hear some of the resources now that 
20    will come to bear to effectively deal with this 
21    immediate crisis.  We need more cops, we need more 
22    correction officers, we need more prosecutors, and 
23    we need more courts, and we certainly need more 
24    juvenile sanctions -- alternatives of sanctions 
25    that we have heard today. 
 1            But that's only going to deal with the 
 2    short-range crisis that we have at hand.  The third 
 3    thing which will be more difficult to accomplish, 
 4    because it doesn't have the basis -- you don't get 
 5    the media attention to it when you talk about 
 6    prevention.  I was so glad to hear Reverend Davis 
 7    and Elder Morrison and the Judge Valdez talk about 
 8    this issue.  We have got to bring prevention up to 
 9    the level of enforcement and incarceration.  We 
10    have not done that very well.  We haven't -- we 
11    just talk about it.  But until we do that we're not 
12    going to be successful in bringing an end to this 
13    issue of crime.  It's got to be a balanced 
14    approach.  Enforcement and incarceration, harsh 
15    treatment of the criminals, but we have got to 
16    start at the -- with the same aggressive interest 
17    and action in dealing with the prevention.  And we 
18    haven't done that.  We'll touch more on that this 
19    afternoon when the local perspective talks about 
20    what can we do in the area of prevention, because 
21    that's where the long-range answer's going to lie. 
22            If we accomplish those three things we will 
23    be well down the road to dealing with alleviating 
24    the crime in this state, and I thank you again for 
25    what you've done. 
 1            ORRIN HATCH:  Thanks, Chief.  What a great 
 2    statement. 
 3            We're out of time, but I'm going to call on 
 4    Bishop Niederauer to sum up his feelings about 
 5    this, and then he'll be our last comment.  But keep 
 6    in mind this is just our first -- our what?  Oh, 
 7    Lieutenant Governor?  Oh.  We'll go to Bishop 
 8    Neiderauer and have the Lieutenant Governor try to 
 9    sum up and finish for us. 
10            Now, this is just the first discussion 
11    period.  We're going to move into the federal in -- 
12    in the next one, and I think you'll enjoy that. 
13            Bishop Neiderauer. 
14            GEORGE NEIDERAUER:  Yes.  I just wanted to 
15    single out three people I would like to agree with 
16    and thank and build a little bit on some of what 
17    they said.  I think that what Elder Morrison has 
18    said is -- and it struck home with most of us, that 
19    a healthy family life and a time of education for 
20    our children is so important, I think role models, 
21    mentors.  Something we haven't touched on directly, 
22    but programs where children five, ten years older 
23    than the children we're trying to help, helping us 
24    help them, that's a very important thing because 
25    that contact with somebody who's making it and 
 1    doing well in school or in the community five or 
 2    ten years older than themselves, that's very 
 3    important as well. 
 4            I think what Attorney General Graham said 
 5    strikes me very strongly.  After all, we are told 
 6    by one study that one in ten residents in Utah has 
 7    been a victim of domestic violence, told that 
 8    in 1995 nearly a third of the assault charges filed 
 9    were about domestic violence, and yet I can speak 
10    from my own perspective that I think it's something 
11    we don't preach on nearly enough in our churches, 
12    something we don't raise the consciousness about in 
13    our communities, and I think we need to pursue 
14    that. 
15            And then I think with Lorena Riffo, I -- 
16    I'm concerned about this.  We cannot do everything 
17    in one day so we can't talk about all the problems 
18    that need to be addressed.  However, I want to 
19    build on something Lorena said, and I think it was 
20    implicit in what Judge Valdez said as well.  Taking 
21    off from Senator Hatch's remark that the vast 
22    majority of our people from other countries who 
23    have come to join us here in Utah are law-abiding 
24    and productive citizens, when we single out for 
25    these focus problems a group of people, in one case 
 1    youth, in another case aliens, we can -- if we're 
 2    not careful if we're not cautious, we can imply 
 3    that everyone in that group is suspect, and we have 
 4    to be very careful, bend over backwards not to do 
 5    that. 
 6            With young people it may not be quite as 
 7    dangerous; after all, we all know young people. 
 8    You know your children, you know your 
 9    grandchildren, you're around young people.  It's 
10    more dangerous with people from other countries 
11    because you may not know them closely, you may not 
12    be -- they may not be your neighbors, you may not 
13    work along side of them, so they remain the 
14    stranger, the other.  And it is -- it will 
15    exacerbate our problems in the community if we 
16    don't have the cooperation of these very 
17    law-abiding and productive citizens, in listening 
18    to them, reaching out to them, and asking them how 
19    we can, within their own communities, draw on their 
20    resources, including themselves, to help us to 
21    reach these objectives we're setting for ourselves 
22    today. 
23            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you, Bishop.  We 
24    appreciate it.  And (applause) you three 
25    ecclesiastical authorities have represented the 
 1    whole religious community in Utah and you've done 
 2    so well, and we appreciate having you here today. 
 3            I'm going to turn to Will just for one 
 4    minute, and then finish up with the Lieutenant 
 5    Governor Walker. 
 6            WILFRED NUMKENA:  Thank you, Senator 
 7    Hatch.  I appreciate the time. 
 8            ORRIN HATCH:  Will, tell them what you do 
 9    and so everybody knows. 
10            WILFRED NUMKENA:  My name is Will Numkena. 
11    I'm the director of the Utah Division of Indian 
12    Affairs, and I'm the state's liaison with the 
13    Indian tribes in the state of Utah. 
14            I just want to bring to your attention that 
15    we in the State of Utah have eight Indian tribes 
16    and reservation lands.  And if I could just make 
17    comment on a couple of items here.  The Indian 
18    tribal courts and law enforcement staff truly need 
19    the support of the Department of Justice.  Crime 
20    does not recognize political boundaries, and there 
21    is crime being committed on the Indian 
22    reservations. 
23            One thing that I'd like to bring to the 
24    attention of the Department of Justice staff here 
25    is that with regards to major crimes that are 
 1    committed on the Indian reservations there needs to 
 2    be a commitment possibly of a staff person who 
 3    would solely and -- give more attention to 
 4    investigation of major crimes on Utah Indian 
 5    reservations; also, along with that, that there be 
 6    a commitment to accelerating the prosecution of 
 7    these crimes that are committed on the 
 8    reservations.  And so I think it's important for 
 9    the Department of Justice to dialogue with the 
10    Indian tribes in the state of Utah because of the 
11    political relationship they have with the federal 
12    government, as well as they having their sovereign 
13    authority. 
14            On a final note, I think it's important, 
15    also, to bring out in this discussion that Indian 
16    reservations are seeing an increase in drug 
17    activity, and we are also realizing that there is 
18    gang activity now taking place on the Indian 
19    reservations, and some of those gang activities are 
20    including violent crimes.  And so I think it's 
21    important that the Department of Justice work with 
22    and closely coordinate and cooperate with the 
23    Indian tribes in the states, and so I just wanted 
24    to bring that to your attention.  Thank you. 
25            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you, Will. 
 1            I might mention that our Youth Violence 
 2    Bill that I hope will get through this year sets 
 3    aside funding for grants for native American tribal 
 4    courts and for the tribal prevention programs as 
 5    well, so we are hopeful -- hopeful that that will 
 6    be helpful to you. 
 7            We'll wind up with our Lieutenant Governor 
 8    Olene Walker. 
 9            OLENE WALKER:  I think one of the things 
10    that Utah is known for, and I feel great about, is 
11    the fact that we're pulling to sit around the 
12    table, forget terms, work together, and find 
13    solutions.  We have all been doing certain things 
14    in both crime and crime prevention, but I think 
15    we're very aware it is not enough, and that I think 
16    the fact that we've come together today, thanks to 
17    your work, will mean that we will have even greater 
18    cooperation, that we need to recognize that we all 
19    have responsibilities.  The federal government, we 
20    presented certain areas we feel very strongly 
21    about; the state, we've had comments in areas we 
22    need to improve in.  Local government is a vital 
23    part.  But even more important, we have talked 
24    about crime prevention, we've done many things in 
25    there.  I don't want to give the illusion that 
 1    nothing has been done.  There has been many great 
 2    organizations in our state who has put a lot of 
 3    time and effort into saving kids, looking at 
 4    at-risk kids, and the state has put a great deal of 
 5    additional money for the first time in looking at 
 6    the needs of at-risk kids.  But it's got to be more 
 7    and we've got to come together.  And I think the 
 8    five goals that we've adopted from the federal 
 9    government -- safe places, that means that our 
10    community, our streets, and our homes are safe. 
11            Caring adults -- this is back to Elder 
12    Morrison.  We've got to do something to help those 
13    families who are not functioning well.  And it 
14    doesn't mean that we point fingers at them, it 
15    means we put our arms around them and help them. 
16            We've got to have healthy starts.  We've 
17    got -- our rate of adolescent pregnancy is low, but 
18    it isn't low enough.  Many of those people that are 
19    in prison are the result of adolescent pregnancy, 
20    and we've got to work to do better to do something 
21    to help reduce that rate. 
22            We've got to -- in marketable skills areas, 
23    every child in Utah deserves the right to be 
24    literate.  You cannot function if you cannot read, 
25    and there is no reason why when 79 percent of our 
 1    citizens are involved in service that we don't have 
 2    every youth reading and every adult.  We've got 
 3    these major goals before us, and I -- that's what 
 4    the state of ALERT is all about. 
 5            This has been a great meeting.  The state I 
 6    think is committed to go forward in both -- as 
 7    Elder Morrison says, both in providing greater 
 8    programs, greater law enforcement, greater beds, 
 9    but also the future is determinate -- determined on 
10    the ALERT program and the goals that we're setting 
11    forth in preventing crime, and until we make that 
12    happen we won't ever have enough beds -- money to 
13    build all the beds that are needed. 
14            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you.  I'll tell 
15    you, we're very fortunate to have you and Governor 
16    Leavitt and General Graham and all of you other 
17    state leaders working as hard as you do, and -- and 
18    if -- if nothing else, we're learning more and more 
19    about what we need in this state what we are doing, 
20    the good things that we're doing and the things 
21    that we need to improve on.  So this has been a 
22    terrific discussion, as far as I'm concerned.  It's 
23    certainly helped me and I hope it's helped everyone 
24    here today. 
25            We'd like to move into our second 
 1    discussion section at this time, and we will 
 2    address the Utah crime problem from the perspective 
 3    of the federal government.  Attorney General Reno 
 4    has already provided us with an overview of some of 
 5    the initiatives of the -- that the federal 
 6    government would like to explore with us.  We've 
 7    been grateful for the things that she is willing to 
 8    do for us, as well as she's outlined here this 
 9    morning, all of which will be immensely helpful to 
10    us. 
11            Before we start the discussion, however, I 
12    would like to turn to the heads of the individual 
13    law enforcement agencies within the Department of 
14    Justice so they may elaborate briefly on the 
15    programs within their jurisdiction. 
16            We're honored to today to have them with 
17    us, and in particular we'll hear first from the FBI 
18    director Louis Freeh.  Director Freeh is head of 
19    the FBI since 1993, and in my opinion is as good an 
20    FBI director as we have ever had.  I have a 
21    tremendous respect for him, work with him every 
22    day, and I've seen him do just about everything 
23    that needs to be done. 
24            He also is the first FBI director to be an 
25    FBI agent, a federal prosecutor, and a federal 
 1    judge.  And he left his federal judgeship to come 
 2    and serve as FBI director.  He comes to us today 
 3    with the experience of one who's been in the 
 4    forefront of law enforcement as well.  He has 
 5    served as FBI special agent and an assistant 
 6    U.S. Attorney and as a federal district court judge 
 7    during his career, so he knows well the problems 
 8    that law enforcement faces. 
 9            Director Freeh will provide some more 
10    details on the increased resources the FBI can 
11    devote to federal crime in Utah and how those 
12    resources might be deployed. 
13            So at this point I'd like introduce to you 
14    Louis Freeh the director of the FBI.  (Applause) 
15            LOUIS FREEH:  Thank you very much, Senator, 
16    and it's a delight and a pleasure to be here, and 
17    I'm very optimistic not only of what I've briefly 
18    heard this morning but the working papers and the 
19    planning and, of course, the follow-up which will 
20    come forth in this meeting. 
21            Let me begin, Senator, by commending you 
22    for convening this summit, and perhaps more 
23    importantly, for the comprehensive leadership 
24    you've provided law enforcement, certainly for many 
25    years, but clearly in my tenure as FBI director. 
 1            A lot of times because of our preoccupation 
 2    with immediate issues -- and in some ways that's 
 3    what law enforcement does; law enforcement in many 
 4    regards treats a patient with a fever with respect 
 5    to many of the crimes that we work against, 
 6    particularly at the state and local level.  And 
 7    it was very gratifying to hear today talking about 
 8    the -- the disease.  The problems, particularly 
 9    those relating to violent crime, drug use, drug 
10    abuse, drug trafficking, are problems which are 
11    beyond the single competence of law enforcement and 
12    go to comprehensive social-economic problems which 
13    need to be addressed.  And it's always gratifying 
14    to hear that balance as heard here, very informed, 
15    a few moments ago. 
16            The other aspect of effective law 
17    enforcement is really the infrastructure and the 
18    cooperation which has to be provided and 
19    established between our federal, state, and local 
20    agencies.  Senator Hatch's colleagues in the 
21    senate, the Attorney General, have been critically 
22    instrumental in providing that infrastructure. 
23            Four years ago, because of changes in 
24    technology, the federal government, along with the 
25    state and local colleagues, many of whom are 
 1    recommended here from law enforcement, would have 
 2    lost its court-authorized authority to conduct wire 
 3    taps, wire taps which are very sparingly used in 
 4    the United States, only 1149 in 1996, the majority 
 5    which are done by the federal government, but 49 
 6    percent are done by our state and local partners. 
 7    Senator Hatch, his colleagues in the senate, the 
 8    Attorney General addressed that critical problem 
 9    by, one, recognizing it, and, two, overcoming very 
10    difficult resistance in passing a statue which will 
11    now give all of us in this room the ability to 
12    treat that fever with the technique which is most 
13    important in drug trafficking cases, certainly also 
14    in counterterrorism cases.  And for that 
15    leadership, Senator, you and your colleagues need 
16    to be commended. 
17            Last year, again under the leadership of 
18    the attorney general, Senator Hatch and his 
19    colleagues doubled the resources which are used in 
20    our counterterrorism program.  Whether we're 
21    dealing with an incident in Oklahoma City or 
22    retrieving, as the federal government recently did, 
23    a fugitive from abroad who was wanted not for a 
24    federal crime but by the Fairfax county prosecutor 
25    for the murder of two individuals, those are the 
 1    resources and the intrastructure which are 
 2    necessary for us to do our job. 
 3            With respect to the initiatives here in 
 4    Utah and Salt Lake City, we're already beginning to 
 5    plan, as you know, for the Olympics in 2002. 
 6    You'll see, in addition to the 2000 athletes 
 7    from 85 countries, two million visitors.  3.5 
 8    million people will view some of those proceedings 
 9    on television.  It is critical that from a law 
10    enforcement point of view, from a crisis management 
11    point of view, those plannings and underpinnings 
12    have already begun -- begun in earnest and will be 
13    accelerated over the years prior to the Olympics. 
14    Those matters, counterterrorism matters and crisis 
15    management matters, depend critically on the 
16    cooperation between the state, local, and federal 
17    authorities, which in this division in this state 
18    of longstanding are very well practiced and very 
19    well established. 
20            With respect to violent crime programs, 
21    your gang project here has identified, for 
22    instance, the presence of 288 gangs, perhaps 3500 
23    members.  The initiatives which are necessary to 
24    deal with that problem from a law enforcement point 
25    of view require the combined resources of our 
 1    federal, state, and local agencies to mount a 
 2    successful and comprehensive attack on a gang like 
 3    the Surenos gang which was recently prosecuted 
 4    here.  The combined initiatives and resources of 
 5    all our federal agencies must be pooled together. 
 6    We must be able to use more authorized wire taps, 
 7    undercover operations, and then rely on competent 
 8    and able prosecutors to bring appropriate 
 9    prosecutions before the courts. 
10            One of the continuing crime problems which 
11    has been recognized here by all of you and 
12    certainly by the federal government is the 
13    interconnection between the gang activity, gang 
14    violence, and drug trafficking.  The two in many 
15    cases are indistinguishable.  From a law 
16    enforcement point of view we need to have effective 
17    combinations or task portions, as we call them, 
18    where we can address those problems.  The FBI has 
19    three main task forces which we support in Utah. 
20    Two are dealing specifically with violent crimes, 
21    and a fugitive apprehension task force is a 
22    separate and third task force which works on the 
23    reservation.  It's called our "Safe Trails Task 
24    Force," which is very effective in dealing with 
25    some of the violent crime problems. 
 1            What we need to do in the next few years as 
 2    planning with the Olympics, insure that with -- 
 3    with respect to drug trafficking, violent crime, 
 4    particularly gang crime and gang establishments, 
 5    that our federal resources are here and effective 
 6    and also combined appropriately with our state and 
 7    local departments. 
 8            We are doubling the number of agents that 
 9    we have assigned to the drug program here in Utah 
10    over the next two years.  That's in combination 
11    with the two existing task forces and our liaison 
12    and joint operations with the Drug Enforcement 
13    Administration, the Marshal Service, the INS, all 
14    of the agencies which you see represented here 
15    under the Attorney General's leadership. 
16            We are very confident that these problems 
17    from a law enforcement level can be dealt with, 
18    that the violent crime rates can be reduced by 
19    effective management of these resources, and we 
20    look forward to working very closely with all of 
21    you and hearing from you to guide and channel 
22    our -- our efforts in this regard. 
23            Senator, let me just again compliment you 
24    for convening this summit and for the 
25    forward-looking nature of all of its aspects. 
 1            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you, 
 2    Mr. Director.  We've been extremely honored to have 
 3    you with us today, and we appreciate all the hard 
 4    work you do across our country. 
 5            Next, federal Drug Enforcement 
 6    Administration administrator Tom Constantine will 
 7    elaborate more on the Department of Justice's 
 8    proposed initiatives to combat drug trafficking in 
 9    Utah. 
10            Director Constantine also -- also notes 
11    well the challenges faced by state and local law 
12    enforcement.  Having come up through the ranks of 
13    the New York State Police before serving for six 
14    years as head of the New York State Police.  I've 
15    really enjoyed working with him.  And everything we 
16    called upon him to do he's done.  He's a tough cop 
17    and a very good guy and a person who I think is 
18    making a heck of a difference.  And this 
19    administration deserves applause for the good 
20    people that they have represented here today.  Each 
21    of them has made a difference in -- in our country 
22    and in the respective jobs that they've done.  But 
23    Tom has done a great job, and I just want to 
24    welcome you here, and we're very grateful to have 
25    you here, and we look forward to hearing your 
 1    remarks at this time. 
 2            THOMAS CONSTANTINE:  Thank you.  (Applause) 
 3            Mention has been made about the efforts of 
 4    Senator Hatch and others and Attorney General Janet 
 5    Reno here today.  One of the things that perhaps 
 6    not many people see is their efforts in 
 7    Washington.  Again and again, as head of the DEA, I 
 8    will receive support or guidance from the Attorney 
 9    General.  She will ask me what types of resources 
10    that we need to make an impact or what type of 
11    legislation will make a difference.  We will then, 
12    obviously, meet with the leaders in the Senate and 
13    in the House. 
14            I think Senator Hatch stands, in my 
15    opinion, as an individual and an elected official 
16    that represents all that I believed when I came to 
17    Washington that politicians should be:  bright, 
18    hard working, and caring about such issues, and 
19    they support us a great deal. 
20            Many of the people that you have here in 
21    the room today from law enforcement of Utah, 
22    sometimes you don't recognize it when they're in 
23    your own livingroom, but Ruben Ortega and Aaron 
24    Kennard and the people running your DPS and your 
25    highway parole are not only recognized as high 
 1    quality law enforcement officials, in the meetings 
 2    that I've been going to in 37 years of law 
 3    enforcement they actually take charge and run many 
 4    of the meetings and have many of the good ideas 
 5    that come forth. 
 6            I've listened to people from the clergy, 
 7    people -- elected officials and lawyers, many of 
 8    them, in all honesty, brighter than I am, great 
 9    grasps of the issues, and I think more importantly 
10    they're residents of Utah, and -- and I can sense 
11    the depth of their emotions as they talk about the 
12    problems, so it would be redundant for me to try to 
13    repeat those types of things. 
14            But let me tell you, as I thought on the 
15    way out to the plane what a strange twist of fate 
16    has occurred here.  As I read the work of Judge 
17    Hutchings and Professor Smith and analysis of crime 
18    rates in comparison to Utah in comparison to the 
19    nation and to New York City, I couldn't think how 
20    ironic -- I couldn't help but think how ironic it 
21    was that it was really the death of a young man 
22    from Utah that changed the entire crime picture in 
23    the United States.  In 1990 a young kid from Provo, 
24    Utah with his family on their way to the tennis 
25    open in Forest Hills Queens defended his mother, 
 1    his father, and sister from a bunch of predators 
 2    that were snatching chains and slashing wallets and 
 3    beating up his own mother.  They stabbed that kid 
 4    to death in front of his parents.  It created an 
 5    outrage in that city like I had never seen before 
 6    in my history.  I, like Ruben Ortega, had spent 30 
 7    years in that state frustrated by what I thought 
 8    was a sense of denial of what had happened in that 
 9    state of violent crime.  I've watched the murders 
10    go from when I was a rookie trooper from 482 up to 
11    2,600 in that state with no increase in 
12    population.  Surely there had not been a 
13    significant increase in police officers, prisons, 
14    prosecutors, probation officers, rehabilitation 
15    workers, or prevention programs. 
16            I traveled that fall with the governor and 
17    the mayor of New York to meetings with every 
18    business and community official in that city.  The 
19    headlines of every paper finally said, "We must do 
20    something about this problem in New York City."  I 
21    watched partisan politicians from both sides in a 
22    state equally divided between republicans and 
23    democrats, I watched the division between New York 
24    City and upstate all be overcome.  Special taxes 
25    were enacted.  8000 more policemen were added to 
 1    the New York City Police Department.  The size of 
 2    that police force was increased by 30 percent. 
 3    Tens of thousands of prison beds were built at a 
 4    very expensive cost.  Prisoners were double bunked, 
 5    which as those in corrections would recognize is a 
 6    very sensitive and at times a dangerous situation. 
 7            What has the result been?  This is in the 
 8    face of a state whose economy did not grow like 
 9    Utah's.  The unemployment rate in that city really 
10    never wavered.  The civil service spending, if 
11    anything, unfortunately decreased.  But that city, 
12    through the effective use of law enforcement and a 
13    just coming together of the community to say enough 
14    is enough, will this year go from 2200 homicides 
15    just six years ago down to probably 800.  So as we 
16    sit here there's 1400 people who will walk that 
17    city's streets today who would be dead if there had 
18    not been the reaction much like I've seen in this 
19    room today. 
20            You should get much credit for this.  I 
21    think, however, the real answer will be a 
22    continuance of the spirit of today. 
23            Let me tell you what we do in DEA to try to 
24    help out.  We are a relatively small agency.  It's 
25    essential that we work with every other law 
 1    enforcement institution.  We have three major 
 2    strategies in DEA that are important to you and 
 3    important to the country.  It has to be recognized 
 4    that there are some very powerful, sophisticated, 
 5    wealthy, organized crime syndicates in this world 
 6    who control your destiny in Salt Lake City.  There 
 7    are decisions being made this morning in Cali, 
 8    Columbia and in Cullacan, Mexico that will affect 
 9    just how much methamphetamine, cocaine, and heroine 
10    arrive on the shores of the United States, how it 
11    will be distributed, how the profits will be 
12    retrieved and sent back to these major drug lords. 
13    The investigation of those people is very, very 
14    difficult. 
15            Some time ago, through -- I agree with 
16    Senator Hatch, probably one of the great people in 
17    law enforcement is Director Freeh.  We sat down and 
18    said that if we could pool our assets between the 
19    FBI and DEA, something that had really never been 
20    done to a great degree before, co-locating our 
21    individuals, we would target the leaders of these 
22    organizations and try to take their whole structure 
23    down.  We have dedicated 500 DEA and FBI agents to 
24    go after these systems and after the leadership. 
25    Much of its sophisticated investigations often 
 1    using court-authorized wiretaps.  To give you a 
 2    sense of what we spend on that, the DEA alone 
 3    spent $5 million last year in translation costs of 
 4    conversations of the leaders of these organizations 
 5    outside the United States and inside the United 
 6    States.  We have been effective in some places. 
 7    The Cali, Columbia group, thought to be 
 8    indestructible is now destructible, and some very 
 9    honest people in that government are assuming 
10    leadership positions.  The same thing was done by 
11    DEA officials involving the Medellin group when it 
12    threatened to destroy the entire structure of that 
13    country. 
14            Here in the United States there are 
15    national organizations.  Often there are 
16    individuals sent here from other countries to 
17    monitor and run and to enforce the drug trafficking 
18    for their -- for their foreign leaders in command 
19    and control situations.  That's where in places 
20    like Salt Lake City DEA agents along with 16 state 
21    and local law enforcement officers and a 
22    metropolitan task force can be very effective. 
23            The highway patrol was mentioned here in 
24    Utah.  Probably the most effective interdiction 
25    program for stopping drugs from reaching your 
 1    household is not a ship at sea, not a radar plane, 
 2    it's a very efficient highway patrol officer, 
 3    deputy sheriff, or patrol officer.  They have 
 4    seized over 90 tons of cocaine in this country, 600 
 5    tons of marijuana, and over $300 million in cash in 
 6    the last six years.  We have how just gone through 
 7    a situation of training 39 additional highway 
 8    patrol officers, and we will grant them federal 
 9    authority in a short period of time. 
10            However, what the public really sees is the 
11    violence that's associated with the drug 
12    trafficking.  It is an incredible level of a 
13    violence that has affected this entire country.  We 
14    asked the Attorney General, and they supported us 
15    with mobile enforcement teams.  We have 250 people 
16    in DEA whose sole job is to work for state and 
17    local law officials.  We don't come in and run the 
18    investigations, we just provide the agents, the 
19    manpower, the technical equipment, and money.  All 
20    of the key decisions, all of the publicity, all of 
21    the results rightly accrue to the chief of police 
22    or the sheriff, because those are the individuals 
23    that know the community best and have to face the 
24    criticism if the problem becomes irresolvable. 
25            The only thing I would say is those have 
 1    been so effective in the last two years we really 
 2    are starting to have a waiting list for cities and 
 3    communities and towns that want their use.  We have 
 4    arrested over 3500 specifically violent drug 
 5    criminals throughout the United States in the 
 6    relatively two and a half years that they have been 
 7    implemented, which is a very short period of time. 
 8            The only thing I would say in closing is 
 9    that in New York in 1989 and 1988 and 1978 people 
10    said this problem was irresolvable, we could not 
11    solve this situation by taking aggressive action 
12    against violent criminals, and many people started 
13    to believe that.  It is not rocket science what has 
14    happened in New York City.  They gave them the 
15    assets, they gave them the availability, and people 
16    of goodwill who are interested in the safety of 
17    their own children, because the most vulnerable 
18    people are not the wealthy, they're not the middle 
19    class, they're the poor people in our society, and 
20    all of those programs should be dedicated to 
21    preventing the least amongst us becoming a victim 
22    of violent crime. 
23            And what you've done here today I think is 
24    impressive, and I think if you look five years from 
25    now your results will be similar to those of New 
 1    York City.  And I'm just thankful, Senator, that I 
 2    had the opportunity to be here this morning. 
 3            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you.  (Applause) 
 4            You can see why I love working with these 
 5    federal law enforcement officials they are great 
 6    people, and to have them here is a great honor for 
 7    us. 
 8            But I would like to have Sherman and Karen 
 9    Watkins stand.  They're here with us today.  Would 
10    you please stand.  This is the family.  These are 
11    the parents that he referred to.  (Applause) 
12            It was a tremendous loss to -- to lose your 
13    son that way, but when you hear how it's mobilized 
14    people in New York and throughout the country, that 
15    vicious, heinous murder, you at least have to have 
16    some solace from that. 
17            And, Tom, we're grateful to you that you 
18    told that today because it -- it just means a lot 
19    to all of us here in Utah.  And we're very, very 
20    grateful to have Sherman and Karen here with us 
21    today. 
22            Now, the Immigration and Naturalization 
23    Commissioner Doris Meissner has devoted nearly her 
24    entire career to the particular problems of 
25    immigration enforcement.  She's a wonderful person, 
 1    and it's very tough job, and she goes through 
 2    perhaps, in some respects, some of the worst abuse 
 3    of anybody who works for the federal government, 
 4    most all of which is unjustified.  And she will 
 5    elaborate on the Attorney General's proposal 
 6    initiatives to deal better with the serious 
 7    problems of criminal and illegal aliens in Utah. 
 8            And I just want to personally thank you and 
 9    General Reno for the help that you've given us up 
10    to now, because you have helped us.  When we 
11    requested help they were happy to give it.  And 
12    every time I've called on you, Doris, you've 
13    been -- you've been very helpful.  So we just want 
14    to thank you for being here, and we look forward to 
15    hearing your remarks at this time.  (Applause) 
16            DORIS MEISSNER:  Senator Hatch, thank you 
17    very much, Governor Leavitt, the other Utah 
18    officials and Utahns in general who are here, for 
19    all your warm hospitality and for the opportunity 
20    to participate in this extraordinary meeting.  I 
21    especially appreciate the comments that have been 
22    made earlier this morning about -- from so many of 
23    you about immigrants as law-abiding members of the 
24    communities in which we live.  That is particularly 
25    important as we talk about immigration, the work of 
 1    the Immigration Service, and I want especially to 
 2    associate this INS with that idea and keep it 
 3    uppermost in our minds as we move forward in 
 4    solving these very difficult problems that are 
 5    before us. 
 6            Identifying, detaining, and removing 
 7    criminal aliens is INS' top priority in the 
 8    Interior of the United States.  Since 1994 the 
 9    Immigration Service, working very closely with 
10    Senator Hatch, has nearly tripled its enforcement 
11    capability in Salt Lake City and in Utah.  We have 
12    grown from nine special agents and detention and 
13    deportation personnel to 23 today.  Three more are 
14    scheduled to be on board before the end of 
15    September.  There is an estimated illegal alien 
16    population in this country nationally of five 
17    million.  INS has one enforcement position per 839 
18    undocumented aliens around the country.  In Utah we 
19    have one enforcement position per 577 undocumented 
20    aliens, so our enforcement strength here far 
21    exceeds the national average. 
22            We believe that these resources are 
23    beginning to pay off.  INS is now removing from the 
24    state of Utah 100 percent of identified illegal 
25    aliens who are aggravated felons.  By virtue of a 
 1    special agreement with the state attorney and 
 2    Utah's Third District Court, we have removed 155 
 3    aliens who have agreed to be deported after 
 4    pleading guilty -- guilty to drug charges.  This 
 5    effort holds real promise, and we believe that it 
 6    can be the basis for an expanded and strengthened 
 7    similar effort. 
 8            So far this fiscal year we have also 
 9    transported 58 criminal aliens from Utah state 
10    prisons to Denver for formal deportation hearings. 
11    Because these criminal aliens have formal 
12    deportation orders, they're subject to severe 
13    criminal penalties if they return to the United 
14    States.  This approach, too, has the potential to 
15    expand and grow with greater local and federal 
16    planning and coordination. 
17            A provision of the 1996 immigration law 
18    which permits INS to delegate enforcement powers to 
19    state and local authorities subject to Memoranda -- 
20    Memoranda of Understanding and appropriate training 
21    will launch a new era of cooperation with local law 
22    enforcement.  When we have established the 
23    regulatory framework for this program we would like 
24    to ask Utah to be the pilot for implementing these 
25    new law enforcement authorities. 
 1            ORRIN HATCH:  That's great.  That's great. 
 2    (Applause) 
 3            DORIS MEISSNER:  County jail authorities in 
 4    Utah have been extremely helpful in providing 
 5    temporary detention space, for which we are very 
 6    grateful.  We are now working with the United 
 7    States Marshal Service and the Davis County Jail to 
 8    increase our available detention space by as much 
 9    as 40 beds or more.  This will permit us to detain 
10    and remove many more illegal aliens who are 
11    convicted of crimes who are associated with 
12    criminal activity and who work in the United States 
13    without authorization.  We're also increasing our 
14    ability to transport illegal aliens out of Utah. 
15    We do this with vans, busses, and with U.S. Marshal 
16    Services' flights.  The delivery of two new 
17    maxivans next month will substantially increase our 
18    capacity to transport aliens to Denver and to 
19    Las Vegas for immigration hearings and removal from 
20    the United States.  This transportation 
21    infrastructure allows us to make current resources 
22    in Utah at all levels increasingly productive and 
23    effective. 
24            Working together, INS and Utah law 
25    enforcement efforts have accomplished a great 
 1    deal.  There is more we can do and there's more 
 2    that we want to do.  Our ideas for next steps 
 3    require that our partnership broaden and deepen. 
 4    We look forward to that endeavor. 
 5            Senator Hatch, thank you so very much, very 
 6    much. 
 7            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you. 
 8            Doris Meissner is one of the people I have 
 9    gained respect for, as you can easily see.  She 
10    lost her husband in the -- in the terrible crash of 
11    the plane that Secretary of Commerce Brown was in, 
12    and I remember when that happened it was 
13    devastating to her, but she has not let up in doing 
14    her job and she's just carried on and done a 
15    terrific job since that time.  So I -- I really, 
16    really just want to acknowledge that to her today, 
17    and I've personally appreciated what she's done. 
18            Our final speaker representing the federal 
19    side of things will be Ed Gonzales the Director of 
20    the United States Marshals Service.  I have a lot 
21    of respect for Ed and for what the Marshals Service 
22    does.  And, as you know, we -- we get tremendous 
23    services of our marshals here in the state of 
24    Utah.  I know them all and I'm very proud of them. 
25    And we're very pleased to have you here, Director 
 1    Gonzalez, so we'll turn the time over to you at 
 2    this time. 
 3            EDUARDO GONZALEZ:  Thank you very much, 
 4    Senator.  It's my privilege to be here in Utah. 
 5    Thank you for setting this summit up. 
 6            I think Ruben Ortega hit the nail right on 
 7    the head when he said that the most important thing 
 8    is to acknowledge that you have a problem, because 
 9    when you take that first giant step you can really 
10    get to the solutions to the problems.  I want to 
11    thank Sheriff Kennard and Sheriff Davis and all the 
12    county sheriffs in Utah that have provided so much 
13    support for us.  I understand the restrictions that 
14    you're facing, Sheriff, with -- with the cap, and 
15    it makes it difficult to provide more beds for us. 
16    But in any case, we're certainly grateful for the 
17    support that you provide. 
18            The Attorney General talked about our 
19    experiences in Miami.  I've -- originally I've 
20    spent 26 and a half years working with law 
21    enforcement in Miami, and much of that time the 
22    Attorney General was state Attorney General in 
23    that area.  And she was talking about our 
24    experiences in the '80s.  In the '80s we had 
25    an infusion of immigrants from Cuba, and 
 1    nearly 200,000 came across on the marial boat lift, 
 2    and we were overwhelmed and we were swamped and we 
 3    thought we could never get a handle on it, and the 
 4    truth of the matter is that Miami did get a handle 
 5    on it and got the problems taken care of.  And Salt 
 6    Lake City and Utah will also get a handle on their 
 7    problems because of the commitment of you folks 
 8    that are sitting out here in the audience. 
 9            She also talked about the federal response 
10    back in those days, and I was wondering about the 
11    feds coming in and telling you what to do and how 
12    to do it, and -- and her approach was is to go in 
13    and ask, not task.  And it reminded me of a -- of a 
14    little story about three dogs that are allowed to 
15    in and search a building, and one is a local dog 
16    and one is a state dog and one is a federal dog. 
17    And after a couple of minutes the local dog came 
18    out and he had three guns in his mouth, and he had 
19    recovered three guns in the building.  A short time 
20    later the state dog came out and he had a couple of 
21    bags of cocaine in his mouth and had made that 
22    recovery.  And a short time later the federal dog 
23    came out.  He didn't have anything in his mouth, 
24    but he called a press conference and announced the 
25    recovery of the guns and the cocaine.  I can assure 
 1    you that -- (applause) -- under -- under the 
 2    attorney general's leadership that doesn't occur 
 3    and won't occur.  As -- as Tom Constantine said 
 4    earlier we go in with a task force to see what -- 
 5    what it is we can do to help, not to take over a 
 6    community. 
 7            There is one area I'd like to throw on the 
 8    table for discussion, and we always talked about 
 9    bricks and mortars, and I'd like to suggest that 
10    there's also some technology we need to look at. 
11    We have been talking about closed-circuit video 
12    conferencing for preliminary hearings, and perhaps 
13    we're -- interviews between attorneys and 
14    defendants, and while we've talked a lot about it 
15    we haven't been real successful at getting it 
16    accomplished.  But recently there was a judge in 
17    eastern Illinois, Judge Paul Riley, a federal 
18    judge, who convened a civil trial where the 
19    prisoner-plaintiff was in New York, and the trial 
20    was actually held in East St. Louis.  And the jury 
21    was in East St. Louis, the defendant's attorney was 
22    in East St. Louis, the plaintiff's attorney was in 
23    East St. Louis.  And Judge Riley really did a 
24    wonderful thing.  He saved the government about 
25    $30,000 by doing the trial in that fashion, and 
 1    more important than that, became a federal advocate 
 2    for the use of closed-circuit TV's. 
 3            I immediately flew into East St. Louis and 
 4    gave the judge a plaque and suggested to the judge 
 5    I would certainly be using his name everywhere in 
 6    the country in support of the video conferencing 
 7    initiative.  It's one way that we can all save 
 8    money, and we can group our prisoners then in 
 9    different areas of the country and not spend a lot 
10    of money on bricks and mortars.  It will be 
11    difficult to get done there.  There are certainly 
12    lots of constitutional considerations, and I 
13    wouldn't want anybody's civil rights to be trampled 
14    in -- just to save some money, but we certainly 
15    have to look at that as an issue. 
16            And I'm glad to be here, Senator, and I'm 
17    ready to answer any questions you all may have. 
18    Thanks very much. 
19            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you so much. 
20    (Applause) 
21            Let me just turn to -- to Senator Bennett 
22    first for any comments he might have. 
23            I might mention to you that Senator Bennett 
24    is on the very powerful Appropriations Committee, 
25    so I look to him on virtually all Utah issues to 
 1    assist in -- and -- and really to do the job in 
 2    helping to see that we have the appropriate funding 
 3    and the appropriate funding levels, and he does a 
 4    terrific job on that committee.  But we're really 
 5    honored that he's been with us here today and has 
 6    taken all this time to spend with us.  So let's 
 7    turn to Senator Bennett, and then we'll move on 
 8    from there. 
 9            ROBERT BENNETT:  Thank you.  Not only does 
10    Orrin look to the Appropriations Committee but 
11    everyone else does, and I've learned want to be 
12    very quiet when it comes to making any kind of 
13    commitments.  Deedee's on the phone to me all the 
14    time about transportation issues and so on. 
15            But I want to share with you a -- a 
16    personal observation that may well come out later 
17    on but that I think needs to be highlighted here. 
18    I went on a ride-along with one of Ruben Ortega's 
19    police squads one night and watched how making drug 
20    arrests in Salt Lake City is like fishing in a fish 
21    hatchery; you just throw in the line and pull it 
22    out and throw in the line and pull it out.  As we 
23    left the police headquarters they created a -- an 
24    informal pool to see how quickly the first arrest 
25    would be made, and the lowest bet was five 
 1    minutes.  And the first arrest was made in three 
 2    and a half minutes, beating the pool, because 
 3    virtually every place you turn there was someone on 
 4    the street corner, quite openly and blatantly, 
 5    making cocaine available.  They even asked me to 
 6    get involved, and I guess I'm on record somewhere 
 7    as being involved in buying cocaine on the streets 
 8    of Salt Lake. 
 9            ORRIN HATCH:  Let's be careful here. 
10            ROBERT BENNETT:  Fortunately, there was a 
11    police woman with me in the van and she can vouch 
12    for the fact that it was all proper. 
13            After that experience I joined with Senator 
14    Hatch in asking the Attorney General for the 
15    increased INS people that have been referred to 
16    here today, and -- and everyone thanked me and 
17    thanked Senator Hatch, and that's fine, except that 
18    not very many months after that I had the police 
19    chief from Ogden in my office.  And, Mayor 
20    Corradini, after you had the sting operation that 
21    you've described here and -- and the benefits of 
22    it, the chief of police in Ogden says, "What's 
23    happened?  We have illegal aliens all over the 
24    streets of Ogden selling cocaine openly."  And you 
25    had squeezed the balloon in one place in the state 
 1    to see it come out someplace else. 
 2            And I was reminded of that, Mayor, when you 
 3    held up the -- the cards for legal residency that 
 4    were forged and improper, because the chief of 
 5    police of Ogden brought me a stack this high 
 6    (indicating) and he said, "Any kind of 
 7    identification you want, Senator, we can provide 
 8    for you in Ogden in a matter of minutes on the 
 9    street, any kind of card and circumstance."  And I 
10    looked through them, I couldn't tell the difference 
11    between those and the legal ones.  They then 
12    pointed out those to me.  This shows how -- how 
13    serious this problem is and how fluid it is, and, 
14    unfortunately, how the demand will go to wherever 
15    the supply might be available. 
16            I have been deliberately quiet this 
17    morning, wanting to sit here and listen as much as 
18    possible because this is not my field of expertise, 
19    and I -- I thought the more quiet I remained the 
20    more wise I might appear.  But it -- it is very 
21    clear that in addition to all the things we are 
22    talking about here as far as drugs are concerned, 
23    we've got to do something about demand side as well 
24    as the supply side.  I'm grateful for the religious 
25    leaders that are talking about that in terms of 
 1    lowering the criminal mentality.  We -- the school 
 2    people who are here understand that we must do 
 3    things in schools to try to raise literacy because 
 4    there is a direct correlation between literacy and 
 5    criminal activity, between good families and 
 6    criminal activity and so on.  We are never going to 
 7    solve the problem of drugs in our society on the 
 8    interdiction side alone.  Yes, we have to have the 
 9    kind of interdiction activities that we are talking 
10    about here, but we must do something to lower the 
11    level of demand for these products. 
12            We have seen activity on the federal level 
13    dealing with tobacco, a major drug problem but that 
14    does not lead to this kind of behavioral 
15    aberrations of crime that other drugs do.  There's 
16    been a major educational program in our schools to 
17    try to get our youth to stay away from tobacco; 
18    conversation about doing the same thing with 
19    alcohol, which is the drug of choice.  We need to 
20    not turn a blind eye or a wink at marijuana use as 
21    being something that every teenager experiments 
22    with and it's okay.  Social use of drugs, 
23    entertainment use of drugs and "it's okay" sends a 
24    message that we have to clean up afterwards on the 
25    streets if we don't focus there as well. 
 1            So I'm grateful to be here and I 
 2    pay -- pay tribute to -- to you, Orrin.  You've 
 3    marshalled the power of the chairman of the 
 4    Judiciary Committee in a way that I don't think any 
 5    other chairman has ever marshalled on behalf of 
 6    this state.  To have all of these folks follow you 
 7    out to Utah is a tremendous demonstration of the 
 8    regard with which you're held by your colleagues 
 9    and, frankly, how important these folks feel you 
10    are that they want to come out here to this state 
11    and arrange their schedules to be here.  And I'm 
12    just grateful that you represent our state instead 
13    of Mississippi or New Jersey or some other place 
14    where they would be having this conference. 
15            But at the same time, in the spirit of this 
16    I would hope that all of us who are gathered here 
17    today, primarily on the law enforcement and 
18    interdiction side, will -- will give some thought 
19    as members of the community to what we can do to 
20    deal on the drug problem with -- with help on the 
21    demand side, because if the demand for these things 
22    were to disappear it wouldn't matter how much of it 
23    was growing in Columbia, they wouldn't have anybody 
24    to sell it to. 
25            So with that let me thank you all for 
 1    coming, again thank our federal leaders for coming, 
 2    and as an appropriator say I've learned to be very 
 3    quiet about what commitments I will make in advance 
 4    on the money, but assure you that I am listening 
 5    and will do what I can with my fellow appropriators 
 6    to see to it that the money is necessary to take 
 7    care of these challenges.  Thank you. 
 8            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you, Senator 
 9    Bennett.  (Applause) 
10            Let me throw this open to comments and 
11    questions.  You have these federal officials here. 
12    This is a chance for -- for you to have a crack at 
13    them and -- and make any points or ask any 
14    questions you care. 
15            ORRIN HATCH:  Aaron Kennard. 
16            AARON KENNARD:  Thank you, Senator. 
17    Sheriff Aaron Kennard, president of the Utah 
18    Sheriff's Association. 
19            I have to, first of all, thank you for your 
20    friendship to the law enforcement community not 
21    only of Utah, but as seventh vice president of the 
22    National Sheriff's Association we have seen you 
23    support all of the nation's sheriffs, over 3500 of 
24    them. 
25            Janet Reno, Attorney General, you, too, 
 1    have been a very true friend of the sheriffs 
 2    throughout the country.  Your roots started in Dade 
 3    County so you know full well what the local efforts 
 4    of the sheriffs are.  We thank you for your support 
 5    and know full well that you are a partner. 
 6            DEA Administrator Mr. Constantine, you've 
 7    touched on some very touchy subjects.  We couldn't 
 8    agree more with what has happened in New York, the 
 9    big problem being with what they have done and what 
10    we have been able to do here in Salt Lake County 
11    and in Utah and the mere fact of not having the 
12    jail beds to lock up those people.  New York hired 
13    6500 to 8000 cops, and they spent millions of 
14    dollars building jail beds.  Over three years 
15    ago 80 percent of the citizens of Salt Lake County 
16    voted to build a jail and voted for a tax increase 
17    to build that jail.  We're about ten years behind 
18    the times in getting this jail up and running. 
19            I a year and a half ago took a shot at the 
20    Marshal Service.  It was an attempt to let you 
21    Mr. Gonzalez and your people know that we had a 
22    serious problem here.  It was not a personal attack 
23    against you people, but my responsibilities lie 
24    within the residents of Salt Lake County.  I had to 
25    cut you back, and it seems like we were at odds 
 1    with each other; however, we are in a partnership. 
 2    You'll hear from Commissioner Callaghan in regards 
 3    to what we think could be a further partnership 
 4    with the federal government in -- here in Salt Lake 
 5    County as well as in the state of Utah. 
 6            Also, a year and a half ago I presented to 
 7    the INS a unique situation in that we would help 
 8    you move these illegals across the borders if you 
 9    would simply give us the ability of 
10    cross-deputization.  You have seen the wisdom in 
11    that.  We thank you, Commissioner, in regards to 
12    that.  Hopefully we can take it a step further and 
13    help the Marshal Service in getting rid of some of 
14    these unfavorable people here that are preying on 
15    our citizens. 
16            So in behalf of all the sheriffs in the 
17    state of Utah as well as the United States, thank 
18    you, Senator, for all you've done. 
19            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you, Aaron. 
20            I'm going to have to step out for a minute, 
21    so I'm asking Senator Bennett to moderate until I 
22    get back.  So Senator, I'll turn it over to you. 
23            ROBERT BENNETT:  All right.  And the first 
24    one I see is the U.S. attorney, so Scott Matheson, 
25    let's hear from you. 
 1            SCOTT MATHESON, JR.:  I don't know if this 
 2    is a federal perspective or a local-federal 
 3    perspective, but I think I'll just jump in and just 
 4    make a couple points. 
 5              First of all, I'd like to thank Senator 
 6    Hatch for organizing this conference.  It has been 
 7    already an extraordinary demonstration of the 
 8    commitment around the table and throughout the room 
 9    to work together; extraordinary in one sense but 
10    perhaps not surprising in another.  For those of us 
11    who have worked over the years on law enforcement 
12    issues, some of us shorter and some of us longer 
13    than others, I think all of us would agree that in 
14    the state of Utah the principle of working together 
15    is so ingrained in Utah law enforcement culture 
16    that it's really manifesting itself throughout the 
17    room today, and I think that this gathering will 
18    only serve to reinforce, strengthen, and deepen 
19    that commitment. 
20            As I've been listening to the speakers 
21    throughout the morning I was thinking of some of 
22    the major prosecutions that my office has done on 
23    the federal level, and I can think of very, very 
24    few that have not involved a cooperative law 
25    enforcement effort involving agents from a variety 
 1    of federal, state, and local agencies.  I think of 
 2    the violent crime task forces that Director Freeh 
 3    mentioned in his opening remarks this morning, the 
 4    DEA Metro Task Force, the Utah Navajo Reservation 
 5    Violent Crime Task Force, and the many cooperative 
 6    working relationships that have been developed and 
 7    will be developed, that sets such a strong 
 8    foundation for the resources that Attorney General 
 9    Reno announced this morning. 
10            We are, of course, honored and delighted 
11    that -- that she is here.  It's been such an honor 
12    for me, and I can speak for my entire office, to be 
13    part of the Justice Department during her time as 
14    the Attorney General, and a special privilege for 
15    her to come into our district today, and we're very 
16    delighted to hear the announcement of the resources 
17    that -- that she specified this morning.  Planning 
18    is already under way to organize the agents, the -- 
19    the prosecutors, and probably most important, the 
20    augmented jail space into our ongoing operations to 
21    make this a -- a good solid initiative to address 
22    the violent crime, drug, illegal immigration 
23    problems affecting the state of Utah. 
24            I should point out that the increased 
25    resource that the state has received in the 
 1    immigration enforcement area has resulted in a 
 2    tremendous increase in immigration prosecutions 
 3    that have been handled at the federal court over 
 4    the past few years.  In fact, our prosecutions have 
 5    almost gone to tenfold from where they were about 
 6    four years ago, and at this point we are 
 7    prosecuting more cases in the immigration area than 
 8    all of the non-border surrounding states around the 
 9    state of Utah.  With this additional resource we 
10    expect to do even more in that area. 
11            I was pleased to hear the comments from 
12    Will Numkena.  I believe it's important in a Utah 
13    crime summit to take account of the law enforcement 
14    needs of the entire state.  I'm sure we'll hear 
15    some more about the law enforcement challenges 
16    outside the Wasatch Front this afternoon, but one 
17    of our special responsibilities and one that we 
18    take very seriously is law enforcement prosecution 
19    regarding violent crime that occurs on the 
20    reservations in the state of Utah.  We have 
21    received additional resource over the past few 
22    years to address these problems.  It's been a 
23    priority of the Attorney General and it's a very 
24    important of area of prosecution.  I appreciate 
25    Will Numkena mentioning that, as well as his 
 1    assistance with us in that area as well as in 
 2    protecting archeological resources in our state. 
 3            I also wanted to mention as part of the 
 4    state perspective's presentation the Utah Highway 
 5    Patrol is another example of a critical working 
 6    partnership.  Most of the pipeline drug 
 7    interdiction work that is done at the federal level 
 8    actually involves the Utah Highway Patrol.  I'll 
 9    just give you a couple of examples.  Just recently, 
10    in three Utah Highway Patrol efforts 250 kilograms 
11    of nearly pure cocaine was taken off the highway. 
12    Street value of that seizure could run as high 
13    as $25 million.  In another case the highway patrol 
14    did -- ten pounds of methamphetamines in an 
15    introduction -- in an interdiction effort, which is 
16    reportedly the largest seizure of methamphetamines 
17    in a non-border location in the United States.  So 
18    our working relationship with the Highway Patrol is 
19    very important, just another example of that 
20    federal, state, local partnership that is critical 
21    to get the job done. 
22            I know we're coming up on the lunch hour 
23    and there'll probably be some of those who want to 
24    engage in further discussion in response to the 
25    panel, so I'll stop there, but I do very much 
 1    appreciate being here and look forward to the rest 
 2    of the program. (Applause) 
 3            ROBERT BENNETT:  Who else?  Jan?  No, 
 4    Camille.  I -- I'm sorry. 
 5            CAMILLE ANTHONY:  Jan's reminding of 
 6    protocol here. 
 7            Camille Anthony.  I'm the executive 
 8    director for the Commission on Criminal & Juvenile 
 9    Justice. 
10            I'd like to take this opportunity to thank 
11    our federal officials, particularly Attorney 
12    General Janet Reno, for what is about $8 million 
13    worth of federal funds that flow through my office, 
14    and that as I look around the table just about 
15    everybody here, in -- in the form of gang units, 
16    drug interdiction units, Violence Against Women 
17    grants, Truth in Sentencing, Filing Incarceration 
18    grants, Victims of Crime grants, Juvenile Justice, 
19    Delinquency Prevention.  For -- for those resources 
20    we're very, very grateful. 
21            We had an interesting presentation in one 
22    of our commission meetings recently by some local 
23    FBI individuals that -- that put our minds to an 
24    effort that is growing that we will probably look 
25    to funds to help us fund.  And actually Earl Morris 
 1    from our crime lab may be able to assist me in 
 2    this, and I'm certain he's more articulate, but 
 3    that is the use of technology in the commission of 
 4    crime, the ability to remove a hard drive from a 
 5    computer, preserve the criminal evidence, and be 
 6    able to use it effectively in a prosecution.  It 
 7    tends to be white color crime.  It is obviously 
 8    into other areas of crime:  violent crime, drug 
 9    trafficking, those kinds of things, so it forced 
10    suggestions.  Your local staff was excellent.  They 
11    are overworked in -- in the need they need to 
12    provide on their cases, but technical assistance 
13    and some training in that area, I think not only in 
14    Utah but across the United States, would be a 
15    helpful item in the future.  And I don't know, Earl 
16    Morris may want to expound on that. 
17            ROBERT BENNETT:  Earl, you've just been 
18    called on. 
19            EARL MORRIS:  Well, I will be brief.  I 
20    will say that the technical assistance that we have 
21    received from the Department of Justice has 
22    literally turned around the crime lab in the state 
23    of Utah, and we have been able to provide a bit of 
24    service for the state and local officers within the 
25    state, enhance the ability to prosecute crimes. 
 1    Because personnel is difficult to obtain, the 
 2    technology that's out there with processing of 
 3    drugs and our link with the FBI and the CODIS 
 4    (phonetic), which is a DNA database for convicted 
 5    criminals, and our Drug Fire, which is a ballistics 
 6    database also linking with the FBI, is assisting in 
 7    the prosecution of many of these violent criminals 
 8    that come through the state of Utah.  So albeit 
 9    we've not been able to get a lot of personnel which 
10    we need in some of the crime lab systems throughout 
11    the state, by the same token, the technology has 
12    enhanced our ability to be very productive, and 
13    we're grateful for that and very receptive. 
14            LOUIS FREEH:  Senator, may I comment on 
15    that? 
16            ROBERT BENNETT:  Yes, certainly. 
17            LOUIS FREEH:  We certainly appreciate 
18    your-- your comments very much.  The whole question 
19    of technology with respect not just to 
20    traditionally white-collar crimes but now 
21    percolating into all kinds of different crimes is 
22    very important. 
23            Last week, except for scheduling problems, 
24    Senator Hatch was going to chair a hearing on 
25    encryption.  Encryption is one of those futuristic 
 1    problems that law enforcement is now very, very 
 2    concerned about.  Ruben and many of the other state 
 3    and local leaders around the country are concerned 
 4    about an environment where all the communications 
 5    of not just sophisticated criminals but kidnappers 
 6    and bank robbers and pedophiles are in encrypted 
 7    channels where there's no provisions made for 
 8    lawful court-authorized access.  So that's one of 
 9    the -- the technology issues which does not impact 
10    now directly on what you do, but should we have an 
11    environment where all criminals can go into a Radio 
12    Shack and buy Level 2 encryption that not the 
13    federal government but the state and local 
14    authorities can't either access realtime or find in 
15    stored data or in evidence, it'll be a very, very 
16    difficult environment.  So those are some of the 
17    issues that we're -- we're working on. 
18            ROBERT BENNETT:  Okay.  David Nicponski. 
19            DAVID NICPONSKI:  Thank you, Senator 
20    Bennett. 
21            David Nicponski, here on behalf of business 
22    and industry in Utah.  I'm representing the Salt 
23    Lake Chamber of Commerce and OY Tech Systems 
24    Aerospace Company. 
25            A question for the federal 
 1    representatives:  Sometimes the best solution is 
 2    something that happens outside of the box.  Is 
 3    there any exploration, Attorney General Janet Reno, 
 4    to the concept of contracting if -- through treaty, 
 5    with the country of Mexico relative to 
 6    incarceration of the illegals that we send back 
 7    rather than incarcerating them here in the United 
 8    States, whereby we pay them to house?  I have to 
 9    think $70,000 per unit per bed is -- is not the 
10    range in the country of Mexico.  Could you answer 
11    that. 
12            JANET RENO:   We have been exploring. 
13    There is a transfer treaty with Mexico, and Mexico 
14    does take back a certain number of offenders, and 
15    we're trying to expand on that.  And thought has 
16    been given to your suggestion, but part of it just 
17    has to do with Mexican prison space, so it is -- it 
18    is a very interesting issue and it is something 
19    that we're pursuing. 
20            Senator, if I might also -- 
21            ROBERT BENNETT:  Yes.  You're up. 
22            JANET RENO:  -- might also -- much of the 
23    credit goes not to the Department of Justice but we 
24    pass the money through -- but a lot of the credit 
25    goes to Senator Bennett and Senator Hatch in 
 1    Congress for the Violence Against Women Act, the 
 2    Victims of Crime efforts and -- and the like, so 
 3    that we want to make sure that we -- we share the 
 4    credit. 
 5            But you've put your finger on what I think 
 6    is going to be one of the great issues that we face 
 7    in the next ten to 15 years.  We are going to have 
 8    sophisticated equipment and we're going to have the 
 9    requirement of expertise in cybercrime that 
10    staggers the imagination.  It is going to be 
11    essential that the federal government keep pace 
12    with it, that state and locals keep base with it, 
13    and I don't think we're going to be able to do it 
14    each operating separately. 
15            What we're trying to do in the Department 
16    of Justice, both through the Office of Justice 
17    programs, the Criminal Division of the U.S. 
18    Attorney Office, and the FBI, is form a 
19    partnership, again, with state and local law 
20    enforcement across the land to make sure that the 
21    sophisticated equipment that may be too expensive 
22    for one state or too expensive for one reason -- 
23    reading is appropriately shared. 
24            We're also going to have another factor, 
25    and that is that very sophisticated equipment is 
 1    going to become obsolete in no time flat.  How do 
 2    we keep up with that?  Those are the challenges 
 3    that we face.  Dwight Eisenhower, when he left 
 4    office, warned of the industrial military complex. 
 5    I think we're going to have concerns about the 
 6    industrial law enforcement complex and how we buy 
 7    smart and wise and use it to the effective -- for 
 8    all of law enforcement, while at the same time 
 9    paying appropriate attention to constitutional 
10    protections. 
11            So thank you so much for raising that. 
12            ORRIN HATCH:  Let me just ask a question 
13    on -- 
14            Chief Ortega. 
15            RUBEN ORTEGA:  My question is for Janet -- 
16    General Janet Reno. 
17            We have noticed a number of undocumented 
18    Mexican nationals that have come up here as hit 
19    squads.  They have murdered some local drug dealers 
20    that ripped them off for as a little as $500.  And 
21    in addition to that we have had some illegals that 
22    have committed other murders and have escaped to 
23    Mexico.  There's a number of them that we have 
24    warrants out for.  Do you foresee any possibility, 
25    because we did not designate Mexico as not one of 
 1    our favorite countries that we would do business 
 2    with, but we are asking them to be partners with 
 3    the United States in many of these problems, that 
 4    we could perhaps encourage them to be more 
 5    aggressive in allowing their nationals that have 
 6    committed heinous crimes like murder to be 
 7    transferred back over here to be held for trial? 
 8            JANET RENO:  We have seen some significant 
 9    progress in the last year.  Foreign Minister Goria, 
10    Attorney General Midrazo (phonetic) have been very 
11    thoughtful in trying to cooperate with us.  Again, 
12    as you know, there is a strong feeling in Mexico 
13    and in a number of the other Latin American 
14    countries about sovereignty.  I've tried to make 
15    this a major issue not just in Mexico but 
16    throughout the continent, saying, "Look, we're 
17    trying to build a spirit of trust."  Every 
18    government but one in this hemisphere now is a 
19    democratic government, which is unheard of in 
20    history, as I recall.  We are building trust 
21    through NAFTA through other initiatives.  If we 
22    have that trust, then let us operate as a criminal 
23    justice system would operate. 
24            And all the prosecutors in his room will 
25    tell you that if a crime's committed here in Salt 
 1    Lake City it should be prosecuted here except in 
 2    very extreme circumstances.  The witnesses are 
 3    here, the feeling is hear, let's do it here.  And I 
 4    explain it to them:  I said, "It's not a matter of 
 5    national sovereignty, it's a matter of where it's 
 6    in the best interests of the case that it be 
 7    prosecuted." 
 8            And I'm beginning to see a change.  Slowly 
 9    the Mexican government has taken some steps.  It's 
10    not going to be perfect.  I'm going to get 
11    frustrated at points along the line.  But we are 
12    seeing some action taken that is really very, very 
13    gratifying, and I'd like to follow up with you and 
14    make sure before I leave today that I get a list of 
15    the -- the key people so we see what can do. 
16    We're -- it's -- I've told somebody earlier today 
17    in all of this, and certainly in this area, 
18    sometimes it's two steps forward and four steps 
19    back, but I think we're making progress. 
20            ORRIN HATCH:  Yes.  Lorena and then Mike. 
21            LORENA RIFFO:  I was just going to say the 
22    constable of Mexico is here in the audience 
23    somewhere, maybe wanting to elaborate on some of 
24    the statements just made by the chief, our Chamber 
25    of Commerce representative. 
 1            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, we are happy to have 
 2    you here.  Thank you for coming.  (Applause) 
 3            Let me turn -- does the Constable -- does 
 4    the Constable want to speak?  Do you want to say 
 5    something? 
 6            CONSTABLE:  Thanks, Lorena, but most of all 
 7    thank you, Senator Hatch for calling this 
 8    conference and for inviting us to be here. 
 9            The first of all that I want to say is that 
10    we share all the concerns that have been expressed 
11    here.  We are also a very important part of the 
12    community, and particularly as we have been brought 
13    we are the biggest parts of the problem.  So I 
14    believe that there is a -- important just to say 
15    that as well as has been done in a national level, 
16    as Attorney General Janet Reno and Doris -- the 
17    commissioner of the INS Doris Meissner has said, we 
18    have to be doing it also in the state and the local 
19    level, everywhere where we are represented.  We 
20    want to work with the local authorities to finish 
21    with the problems of drug abuse and drug 
22    trafficking.  That affects not only the community 
23    of youth but this affects everybody. 
24            And, in fact, if it effects youth it 
25    affects also our community, because even if there 
 1    is very high the 80 percent of undocumented Mexican 
 2    people that have committed the crimes in a -- that 
 3    are here in this Wasatch Front, I have to mention 
 4    that this big number that appears in the statistics 
 5    does not represent even the two percent of the 
 6    whole Hispanic community that lives here.  And I 
 7    think that has to be pointed out because our 
 8    community is also suffering.  And we don't have to 
 9    punish them for that.  Let's punish the guilty 
10    ones.  Let's try and deport them and do whatever 
11    they are -- whatever they have to receive, but 
12    let's point out that the Hispanic community is 
13    working with all of you, also, to finish this 
14    problem. 
15            And thank you very much. 
16            ORRIN HATCH:  Thank you.  Appreciate having 
17    you with us.  (Applause) 
18            Mike.  Senator Waddoups. 
19            MICHAEL WADDOUPS:  Thank you, Senator.  I 
20    had a question for you.  In meeting with my 
21    colleagues and other state legislators I've noticed 
22    that legislators from Arizona and New Mexico, for 
23    example, are very supportive and almost embarrassed 
24    that that many illegal aliens are making it through 
25    their state and getting to ours.  I'm wondering 
 1    about your colleagues, and if -- if they're good to 
 2    work with.  The reason I say that is when I dealt 
 3    with some of the ones from Texas, Florida, and New 
 4    Mexico, perhaps they were a little less -- or not 
 5    New Mexico, Nevada, they were perhaps a little less 
 6    in tune to that, the problem of getting through, 
 7    they were so concerned about their own state.  And 
 8    then when I spoke to the ones from California they 
 9    almost seemed received that they were getting 
10    through to get them out of their own state. 
11            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, I think they're also 
12    working quite well in this area, and, you know, we 
13    did the Immigration Bill last year.  It was -- the 
14    Illegal Immigration Bill.  It was a very difficult 
15    bill and there are things that need to be changed 
16    there, and as we -- as we have some experience 
17    we'll make those changes.  But I found the 
18    colleagues worked very closely with us in these 
19    areas.  And we -- actually, we had the widest 
20    disparity of viewpoints on the Judiciary Committee 
21    last year that you could possibly have had on the 
22    subject of illegal immigration, and we worried 
23    would it bring most everybody together.  And there 
24    was a lot of cooperation, but we need to do a lot 
25    more. 
 1            On that issue, though, let me just ask 
 2    Doris Meissner this question:  On illegal 
 3    immigration, the IDENT fingerprint communication 
 4    system is being brought on line along the border to 
 5    ensure identification of, you know, aggravated 
 6    reentries.  Now, on Page 46 of our book here that 
 7    we passed out here today we suggest implementing 
 8    IDENT in Utah.  Would you -- could you comment on 
 9    that.  Is it possible we could do that? 
10            DORIS MEISSNER:  This suggestion was made 
11    in the book and it was also made by the Mayor in 
12    her remarks this morning.  IDENT is one of our most 
13    promising technologies, and we are doing a great 
14    deal with technology across the board in the 
15    Immigration Service.  We had installed it on the 
16    border first because I think everybody would agree 
17    that the most effective response to illegal 
18    immigration is to prevent it and to deter it from 
19    occurring as much as possible, and the IDENT system 
20    has been invaluable there in letting us know who 
21    may be a second- or third- or fourth-time process 
22    so that we can target our prosecution to punish 
23    those who are the habitual offenders and typically 
24    are the smugglers and the guides and so forth. 
25            But we are moving IDENT throughout the 
 1    country as quickly as we possibly can, and we are 
 2    moving it at the present time from the border to 
 3    our major detention centers, so that, again, we can 
 4    record and identify those who are being returned, 
 5    so that we are beginning to build a record of 
 6    habitual offenders, and we will eventually be 
 7    installing in all of our offices.  I did not check 
 8    before I came where -- where we are on that 
 9    continuum, but I certainly will do so as a 
10    follow-up to this meeting, and you will at some 
11    point be receiving IDENT. 
12            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you. 
13            DORIS MEISSNER:  It's very much in our 
14    plan. 
15            ORRIN HATCH:  If you can -- if you can move 
16    it into Utah we'd appreciate it, because I think 
17    it's a good program and I think we -- we'll gain 
18    from it. 
19            I think we're going to make you the last 
20    one, okay, and then we'll break for lunch.  Thank 
21    you. 
22            Thank you.  I represent the U.S. Small 
23    Business Administration, and wanted to address the 
24    issue of federal agencies working together to 
25    achieve goals that impact our communities on the 
 1    local level.  The Small Business Administration has 
 2    been involved with the state in economic 
 3    development and with our local communities in some 
 4    of our Weed and Seed programs. 
 5            My role particularly is to head up and work 
 6    with minority enterprise development, and it's to 
 7    that issue that I want to speak to.  I have been 
 8    involved with working and strengthening the 
 9    business growth in our various ethnic communities 
10    in the state of Utah.  And we in the ethnic 
11    community are very concerned about the growing 
12    crime rate, particularly -- particularly as it 
13    impacts on our ethnic families.  We're concerned 
14    about the negative influences of drugs and gangs 
15    and violence.  In our Asian, Hispanic, African 
16    American, and Native American children we are most 
17    concerned about how illegal aliens engaging in 
18    illegal activities are negatively affecting our 
19    multiethnic children. 
20            We are particularly concerned that the 
21    perception that the rising crime is directly 
22    related to the rice of numbers of illegal aliens in 
23    Utah, and how that affects the perception of the 
24    rest of us who have been long-term Utahns living in 
25    Utah for many years and those of us who are native 
 1    Utahns -- Utah, we are concerned about how our 
 2    ethnic youth may be persuaded to engage in easy 
 3    money instead of having to work at jobs for their 
 4    money.  And there is something that we haven't 
 5    talked about in today's summit as it relates to 
 6    federal, state, county, and community organizations 
 7    working together, and that is that a great 
 8    percentage of our inmates that are in 
 9    our -- our facilities are ethnic minorities of our 
10    various groups. 
11            We have talked about the need to look at 
12    prevention and not to just look at how we're going 
13    to prevent -- incarcerate and -- and take care of 
14    the crime that is happening, but how can we prevent 
15    some of the crime that is happening, particularly 
16    as it impacts on our ethnic families.  And I think 
17    that one of the things that is happening today as 
18    you look around the table is that we bring everyone 
19    to the table.  It is said that decisions are made 
20    by those who sit at the table.  And because if you 
21    look at our crime institutions here in the state of 
22    Utah and you do see a lot of Hispanics, a lot of 
23    Asian Americans, a lot of ethnic -- multiethnic 
24    cultural ethnic people there are there, that you 
25    continue to call us to the table so that we can 
 1    bring our perspective to some of the solutions. 
 2            One of the things that I need to look at as 
 3    a federal representative is economic development. 
 4    I would like to point out that one of the issues 
 5    we're looking at is the rate of employment in our 
 6    ethnic communities.  Right now in Utah there is a 
 7    lot of bragging about the fact of unemployment in 
 8    the state of Utah is at three percent, about three 
 9    percent, and that it's at its lowest rate ever in 
10    the state of Utah.  However, in our ethnic 
11    community that unemployment rate is at nine 
12    percent, and I think that it's an item of 
13    prevention that we can look at in terms of what can 
14    we do in the area of employment as it relates to 
15    our ethnic communities and ethnic families so that 
16    we can not be worried about the fact that you our 
17    kids are going to want to be engaged in illegal 
18    activities for earning money instead of working 
19    building at a job.  And as we look at these things 
20    if we work together and bring us to the table to 
21    help identify some of these solutions. 
22            We suggest, therefore, that as part of the 
23    crime prevention part of today's summit that the 
24    State of Utah, the cities of Salt Lake, Ogden, and 
25    other cities of high concentrations of ethnic 
 1    minorities look at plans and ways to focus in on 
 2    the issue of employment in their communities as 
 3    that it relates to their ethnic families:  What can 
 4    we do to work together and what can we do to solve 
 5    that problem and how does that impact on crime?  If 
 6    we can give our ethnic families, the heads of 
 7    families, jobs and give their kids jobs, maybe that 
 8    is one way that we can address an issue of crime 
 9    and crime prevention. 
10            ORRIN HATCH:  Well, thank you.  I thought 
11    those were particularly good comments.  (Applause) 
12    Thank you. 
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