Bob Davis
Welcome to Patchwork. Today, we're joined by acting director Regina Lombardo of the ATF. Is it OK to call you Regina?
Regina Lombardo
It sure is, yes. Thank you.
Bob Davis
Thanks for joining us today. For our listeners who may not be familiar with the ATF, can you tell us a little bit about the Bureau, what the mission is, and what kind of offenses you all investigate?
Regina Lombardo
Well, I could say that we're one of the smaller bureaus in the Department of Justice but I think we have probably what I would think the most vital mission, which is public safety. We enforce the federal gun laws and we regulate the gun industry, which is not an easy task, especially during these times of unrest and all sorts of things happening but our mission involves federal offenses that are unlawful manufacture, possession of firearms and explosives, which is not an easy job. We also regulate the industry and that includes what we say licensing and manufacture for the sale and the possession of firearms and explosives. But many of our efforts are really if it could be real specific, it's to focus on violent crime and we carry out a lot of that though our mission, through our task forces, state and locals and work with our federal partners as well. We have a, like I said, a vital mission of public safety and many, many, many factors to that and many initiatives that we use to execute our mission, especially our NIBIN, National Integrated Ballistic Information Network. And that's really been something we've been focusing on with the department for this past few years but more specifically this this year.
So I can say overall, what we do is enforce the federal gun laws and regulate the industry and we've been doing that for many, many, many decades. We're an old bureau with a vital mission.
Bob Davis
And you mentioned NIBIN, tell us more about that, that's a ballistic information network, right?
Regina Lombardo
Yeah, NIBIN is National Integrated Ballistic Information Network. It's a database of digital images of shell casings, spent bullets and cartridge casing that we find at crime scenes or we actually even recover some of those from test-fires that we've confiscated with weapons that were recovered in crimes. So it's a national network system that we provide to our state and local law enforcement partners to use our system. And I would equate this to a thumbprint that you may find on a crime scene. Every shell casing has a unique marking. It's like a thumbprint. And what we do is at our correlation center in Huntsville, Alabama, we conduct those images, ballistic correlations, and we return those leads once we have a good connection. We believe that some of those shell casings may be connected to other crime scenes or firearms that we've used. And we provide those leads to our law enforcement partners. And at the correlation center, we actually train many state and local police, we train about four hundred police departments there right now and I'm hoping to increase that next year. But those leads really go out and help us solve trigger puller crimes, people who are pulling the trigger. So I think that that really involves where that plays into our role in reducing domestic violence is it's really, really something that we have been able to use in these types of cases, especially when we have protective orders. We've had a lot of domestic violence-related investigations and that is what we work through our Project Guardian as well.
Bob Davis
Tell me more about Guardian.
Regina Lombardo
Project Guardian is something we launched, it's an initiative that really focuses solely on crime guns, not just… Project Safe Neighborhoods, we've had lots of good initiatives, but this one really focuses on crime guns, guns that are recovered in crimes. And we use our federal firearms laws, all the laws that we have that are already in place and we use many of those laws like “Lying and Buying” or “Lying and Trying” and looking at how do we use our crime gun intelligence to prosecute crime, firearm-related crimes. And Guardian is something that kind of wraps it up in a nice bow and says that this is a priority for the Department with each of our U.S. Attorneys. And these types of cases of crimes of domestic violence is really part of Guardian. It's something that we started, I think, we kicked it off last December with a press conference with the Attorney General and my federal partners. And that's what ATF’s really been bringing to the table, is the firearm-related crimes and prosecutions.
Bob Davis
I like what you said, the way you describe that - “Lying and Trying”, “Lying and Buying”. So you're really talking about the enforcement of the gun laws right there, right?
Regina Lombardo
Yes, so if… I think that we enforce what we call Title 18 United States Code is where we get our authority from. Persons who are convicted of many crimes, underlying crime, and specifically if we're talking about domestic violence and violent offenders from possessing firearms, the persons who are actually convicted of a crime of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, who are under a certain court order of protection and prohibited from possessing firearms, we call them G-8 and G-9 cases because the law allows us under Title 18, Section 922, G-8 & G-9 and that's what we get our authority from. But when we talk about Lying and Trying and Lying and Buying, we also use the term straw purchase, and that is when someone is a person who goes into an ATF Federal Firearms Licensed Dealer, we call them FFLs - Federal Firearms Licensed Dealer. And so when someone goes into one of the FFLs and they fill out a form that we call 44-73, that's a yellow form that all persons who are familiar with the gun laws have to fill out that form. So when someone goes in and purchases a firearm and they fill out that form there and if that person is a felon or if it's someone who does not want to complete the form and fills it out for someone else that is not a convicted felon, then that is what the background check will come back and say that that person is lawful, but he's purchasing it really bottom line for somebody else. So that's what we call a straw purchase. Even if that person is not actually prohibited from possessing a firearm, like the person who does not want the government to know that they own a firearm, but if it's purchased by someone else, that's a straw purchase and that's a violation of federal law so we can technically charge those cases and that is what Project Guardian allows us to also do, is focus on those cases that don't typically get charged. But this year, we've really been focusing on when someone lies on a form and tries to buy a gun and they don't get the firearm. And then we also charge with those who lie on the form but do get the firearm and that's also Lying and Buying. So lots of different ways that we can use our federal laws to help with the unlawful commerce or unlawful firearms, getting into commerce or getting out on the streets.
Bob Davis
You know, as you're saying that I'm thinking of some of these domestic violence situations where an abuser has a gun or is trying to get a gun and may ask their victim to make the straw purchase or perhaps a victim of domestic violence knows that someone has a gun illegally. It sounds like this is an area where increasing awareness in the community of people trying to help victims would help them know that you're a resource, you can help.
Regina Lombardo
Especially when it comes with the interplay between state and federal law, when it comes to domestic violence and firearms, there are times when the state is unable to prosecute offenders for domestic violence involving a firearm, whether the victim recants their story or the charge is reduced to a lesser-type crime. But if the offender is a felon or has a qualifying prior conviction for domestic violence or a restraining order out against him, then ATF can step in and we can charge the federal offense of illegal gun possession. And that is based on the 922 G case law that we have.
Bob Davis
Tell me about the interplay between state and federal law when it comes to domestic violence and firearms.
Regina Lombardo
When it comes to the interplay between the two, state and federal law, there are many times when the states are unable to prosecute offenders for domestic violence involving that firearm, whether it's because sometimes a victim and understandably recants or the charge is reduced to even a lesser crime. But if the offender is a felon or has other what we call qualifying prior convictions for domestic violence or restraining order out against him, then we can step in. ATF can step in and charge the federal offense of illegal gun possession. And that's based on the laws that we have the authority to enforce. The federal violations for illegal possession of a firearm and that's by someone who's been convicted of a qualifying misdemeanor crime or domestic violence or even someone who's been the subject of certain court orders do not need the victim's testimony for prosecution. That's important because the court documents can speak for themselves. And this helps domestic violence victims who may be afraid to testify against their abuser and that we find quite often. That's definitely something we've been challenged with. But you've heard me use the word qualifying, right, a number of times. And this is because the domestic violence conviction or the court order has to be met. It's a certain criteria that we have to meet. It's important that the agents that are working these cases or the United States Attorneys that are prosecuting these cases do the research of the state crimes of conviction or the court order to make sure that they really can support that federal charge. And that's where I think if you really are trained well in these types of cases, and I think that many of our special agents are trained specifically to do the research in the state law, to be able to take it into a federal court. So that's key because I think that we do see quite a bit of issues with these cases where we have victims who are fearful and understandably so.
Bob Davis
You have been with the ATF for a while. You were in the field. You've seen changes in the organization. Tell me a little bit about the effort to educate agents. This is not what I think of when I think of the ATF. You're talking about really saving lives by preventing domestic violence homicides by folks who understand the laws and understand how to do this work. It's pretty extraordinary.
Regina Lombardo
Well, I am in now for almost three decades, right? 30 years as a special agent. I still carry the badge. I'm still very honored to do that. And so I can have a good foundation, really, of what it takes to do a really good investigation and those fundamentals. And when I started my career in the Miami office, we really started to focus on what we call G-9 cases in crimes, domestic violence, misdemeanor, underlining crimes that allows us to take these cases federal. So I've had some, you know, what I call good foundation to work these cases and I like to teach that at the academy and talk about them around the country. You asked me the question and my mind, flies back to many of the cases that we've handled involving victims who unfortunately have seen too many of them who have been raped or sodomized, beaten, trafficked with weapons and firearms, assault rifles, sawed-off shotguns pointed at their heads. And many of these cases involve felon in possession of a firearm subject to a restraining order or someone who has prior convictions of domestic violence. So that in and of itself allows us the authority to work these cases. So we've had many, the murder for hire that you read about sometimes where we have incarcerated domestic violence perpetrators, they try to hire someone on the outside to shoot and kill their partner. We see that and we've worked many of those cases. I thinking of one in particular where the offender wanted his wife killed, specifically because she testified against him in a domestic violence case. That's common. And I know it's hard for people to believe until you've sat in the seat and brought that case to trial, that you really see that these are, this is happening. I think the felon in possession who would shoot squirrels off the back deck in front of his partner and child to show her what he's capable of doing and let that fear factor set in. We have had a gamut of cases, I think of right now another case where we had a felon who held a gun to a pregnant woman's head and raped her.
And many of the cases involve children witnessing these horrible acts. So when we work these cases, we don't just, it's hard to say… we don't just work them in their paper cases and we go to court and we just write the case up. We actually…it's very impactful, we actually have a lot of emotion behind them and we try our hardest to take care of the victims as well. But we also want to make sure that our case is solid and that we've done all the due diligence to make sure that it's prosecutable and it has the quality convictions there. And those are not easy to work sometimes. Most recently, I've just created in every field office to have our violent crime coordinator, every field office across the country. Twenty six of them have someone specifically assigned to work these cases that understand the inner workings, understand the law, understand the type of cases that type of work and due diligence and attention to detail that you need to work these cases. So pretty proud of that, it's been something I've been wanting to do for a while and I think this year we've been able to really focus on having the right person prosecute and take these cases to court.
Bob Davis
You know, they're very emotional, the examples you used are really just disturbing. And you all see this all the time up close and personal. I'm sure it's very motivating. Are you able to provide assistance to victims? It's emotional all around. How do folks manage that, your agents manage out in the field?
Regina Lombardo
You said it right, it's definitely emotional all around because nothing that we do is just on the surface. You put your heart and soul into your cases and you want to make sure that they're done right and especially when it comes to victims. So we take a holistic approach to all of these cases. So when an agent reveals that there is a victim of one of their domestic violent gun cases that they're investigating, that they that we make sure that they know and are aware and make direct contact with our victim witness assistance program and that's a resource that we have within our own agency. We also provide them emergency supplies, food, clothing, shelter, but we also provide them money to be able to provide a prepaid cell phone needs. We look at how they have to survive for the next few days. So it's something that we, it's a bridge that we come in and we take care of these victims because again, now they are victims because they've made contact with law enforcement and that we see quite often. In one of the cases, the victims program was able to pay for window door locks, deadbolt, keys for the victim after she got a restraining order against her boyfriend who refused to cooperate with the order. So we see all of that. It's a holistic approach that I feel is how we work best.
They're not just paper cases or don't have a person behind it or a life or kids or family behind it. We try to really have compassion and empathy when we take many of these cases to court. And the victim is our witness as well. So we have to make sure that our witnesses are taken care of and that may sometimes include a little extra compassion or a little extra care for our victims.
Bob Davis
It's really moving to hear how your agents are working with victims in the field, they're really empowering victims. Earlier you talked about how there are ways to keep victims off the stand, but you're also, it sounds like helping victims take a stand. And one of the ways that they do that is through restraining orders, which are important part of this process. Talk a little bit about the role of a restraining order in this.
Regina Lombardo
Yeah, that's something I want to make sure that is clear because I've often heard people say, ‘oh, it's not worth the paper it's written on’, but I could tell you for us it is. Although some people may say it's just, you know, it's just a process that the victim has to go through, that you just have to make sure that you have the restraining order in place but does it really work? But it actually is really necessary for law enforcement and particularly us with ATF to be able to actually charge that individual with the illegal possession of that firearm. And so in the law, it specifically states that it is unlawful for a person who is subject to a restraining order, or court order, that person from harassing or stalking or threatening an intimate partner.
And that's what the law says. So that needs to happen. You actually need to make sure that the court order is in order that the victim does file that because without that court order, there's no violation at ATF can even bring a case to the U.S. Attorney's Office. So I reiterate that purely because some feel that it's not worth the paper, why bother going and doing it, but it technically it has to be because we can't even bring a case into federal court without that foundation of even having that order, because they have to be under a restraining order for us to move forward.
Bob Davis
That’s a great point. Thank you for that.
You know, I think about the law enforcement folks who respond to these calls, you know, and the lay public has heard many, many times that these are very dangerous responses for law enforcement that they face. One of the most dangerous encounters as an officer is domestic violence. It seems like the possession of a gun is as a driving force in that. Tell me a little bit about your perspective on that danger.
Regina Lombardo
Well, I could tell you in and of itself, the responding to any of the calls that state and local get are dangerous, many of them are. For ATF agents when we have to go and retrieve a firearm from someone who should not have a firearm is dangerous. But I think that, you know, if you look at it overall, these types of cases are absolutely more high risk. Officers we see all the time are killed responding to these types of calls than any other call. I mean, that's a fact. Those statistics that that, you know, exist. I know most recently there was an officer in Houston that was killed responding to a domestic violence call just a couple of weeks ago. And I actually reached out to the chief out in Houston and he's heartbroken over the fact that he has many of these cases where his officers are responding and they're met with gun violence too. These calls are generally more volatile, no doubt, than other crimes. Most of the time the offenders have lost control and they feel that they have nothing to lose by taking out the anger on other officers. We see this often and more often in these types of cases, especially if they have that passion and they're amped up and they're very passionate about their loved ones and they want to, you know, just get that frustration out. Most of them have will kill a police officer with a blink of an eye without even, you know, thinking about it. So we're seeing this across the country. The statistics are there. And I could tell you responding, period, to calls bring risk. Law enforcement is a risk when we respond to anything, public safety, right? But especially these types of cases.
Bob Davis
You talked earlier about Project Guardian, but are there other programs you'd like to mention in other communities that you've seen be impactful?
Regina Lombardo
Yes, actually, there's many projects that ATF is involved with state and locals have developed Department of Justice, I think everybody's public safety is and violent crime reduction is what the whole country wants, right? I mentioned, obviously, Project Guardian, and that is, again, a nationwide look at all of the federal laws that we can possibly bring to the table and charge. So that, I think, again, is not just the neighborhood, it's the actual use of crime guns.
Operation Safe Families is another initiative that we've been working with the Northern District of Alabama and that specifically to fight domestic violence through the Safe Families. They work with us all federal agencies, state and local. And that's primarily to combat domestic violence. And that's that comes to mind, Safe Families. We also have Home Front, another one just on domestic violence. And that's at a Spartanburg, South Carolina, where the U.S. Attorney's Office and ATF work with our District Attorney and the state law enforcement especially. And again, using all of the gun violence, all of these violations at ATF can bring to the table. And many times those are what the federal charges are. You don't have many other federal charges when it comes to domestic violence. You have your state violations, you have your local violations and the federal violations is where the gun comes in and that's what we do. So I'm pretty proud to say that for the last few years, especially this year, with the Department, we've been working really hard… Erin Nealy Cox, in Texas, and many of the U.S. Attorneys that I've partnered with to charge more than five hundred domestic violence cases across the country. It's been a big priority since 2019 and Attorney General Barr, has been pretty focused on law enforcement, getting the resources that they need and his mission has been to violent crime and reducing gun violence. But I know this year, they created the Domestic Violence Working Group and I have been able to speak to them and have a good conversation with them about how we can partner and how we can work better. And that's just what I say. The U.S. Attorney's Office and Department of Justice, ATF has really brought to the table for this for this challenge.
I'd like to just highlight, you know, there are several U.S. Attorney's Offices around the country that feel the same way that we do, and that is make the best prosecutable case because this is where it really counts and to not necessarily overlook these cases and even though they're difficult to charge and sometimes most of them go to court and most of them have to be, you know, a litany of witnesses and victims are hard to deal with. It's a little bit of a challenge and I sometimes say whitewater rafting through many of these cases where it's difficult. But at the end of the day, you feel a sense of fulfillment. You feel a sense of pride for working these types of cases.
Bob Davis
I bet you do, because it's really protecting people and preventing homicides potentially.
Tell me, as you as you train your new agents, as you speak to the new folks that come in and you've been at the ATF for a while and thank you for your service. What do you see on the horizon? What do you tell the new agents about this this moving forward in this mission space? Because it's a real it's a real important effort.
Regina Lombardo
What I tell them, I have an opportunity to every special agent class. I go down to do their graduation hand them their credentials. But, yes, it's probably the my favorite part of the job lately is, you know, going down and speaking to a whole new, you know, future of ATF. And when I have the opportunity to plant seeds and see them grow, I really feel a sense of fulfillment. But when I speak to them, I speak to them and I tell them our position on sexual assault, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, even in our own organization. And where I draw the line, a very hard line, not in our house, not on my watch. I share, I start off by saying what how we view it and there's a hard line I draw. But it also allows me to say and now, you know, we don't tolerate that and around the country, you are empowered by getting your credentials, swearing out warrants. You have the power to make arrest and to look at that and have a sense of reasonableness, but a sense of responsibility when it comes to cases that involve domestic violence because they are out there. And don't overlook those cases because those are going to be some of the challenging cases that you work and you're going to feel a sense of pride in working many cases, but particularly these types of cases. I tell them that that's my focus going into 2021, is firearms trafficking, reducing the amount of weapons that are in the hands of criminals, cutting down that pipeline feeding trigger pullers. But in domestic violence cases, we're going to stay the course. These types of cases, I always say, really make an impact for victims of abuse and it really brings them justice. And they should be proud of that to be able to have a role in that. And I continue to beat that drum. I would say find your rhythm, find your drum beat. And many have become experts in certain cases they work. I could see it around the country. I could go around the country and I see some agents have an expertise in explosives. They become certified explosive specialists, some have an expertise in firearms trafficking and those are the critical ones that I can see have the talent because they're not easy cases. And then I go around and I see some just have I really want to do the, we call the G-9 cases, the domestic violence cases, because they have a sense of purpose, they feel a sense of mission and they become really good at it. So I tell them to sharpen their skills and look for the others out there that can carry, that can pass the torch on, that can help them stand out and help them be a really good agent. And this is one area that I've been talking about quite a bit, because I think that we can definitely do better. But we've done great this past year and I want to just stay the course.
Bob Davis
Regina Lombardo, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Regina Lombardo
Oh, you're welcome, my pleasure. Again, 2021 is a year full of new challenges ahead if I can get through 2020. Leading through adversity has been difficult, but I tried to never lose sight of public safety. And I can tell you we're looking forward to transitioning into 2021. So thank you all. Thank you for this opportunity and very proud to represent the women and men of ATF.
Bob Davis
And thank you for listening to Patchwork. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone you think might find it useful and let us know what you like to hear on a future episode. We love hearing from you. E-mail us at patchwork@usdoj.gov. Or give us a call, (202) 307-6026. Special thanks to Minh Ha, who does all the work behind this, editing this, pulling all the pieces together.
Thanks for joining us.
